COP 8 and section 9A = not the same?

[webberg]

Webberg - before it's closed are you going to share the benefits of your insights?

PM me.

[handyandy]

Webberg - before it's closed are you going to share the benefits of your insights?

[webberg]

Thanks all.

The only HMRC consistency is inconsistency.

I'm now asking the mods to close this thread please?

[elbee]

Penfolds 07/08 enquiry

Received this letter (apparently*) in October 2009:

"Dear XXXX,

Check of Self Assessment Tax Return for the year ending 5 April 2008

Thank you for your tax return for the year ended 5 April 2008, which we received on xx xxx 2009.

Every year we check a number of returns to make sure that they are correct and our customers are paying the right amount of tax. I would now like to check your return. My check will be made under Section 9A of the Taxes Management Act 1970.

What I will be checking

I only intend to look at the employment income and benefits provided to you by Penfolds Ltd. However, when I look at this aspect I may find that I need to extend my check.

What you need to know

I am hoping to deal with this matter centrally but I am opening this check to protect the interests of HMRC, so that any adjustments eventually agreed may be reflected in an amendment to your self assessment if appropriate.

You may wish to talk to your employer about this letter.

After the check is completed

I will let you know if your return is correct. If it is not correct, you might have to pay more tax or we might have to pay something back to you. We will tell you more about this at the time. We normally charge interest on any extra tax that needs to be paid but we can also give interest on amounts we owe to you.

More information

I enclose factsheet CC/FS1 General Information which gives you more information about this type of check. Please take the time to read it. There is more information on our website at www.hmrc.gov.uk."


That was all I heard until the CSO received in August 2014. 5 years of nothing...

*note - I don't believe I actually received this letter, but a scanned copy was provided when I enquired about the proof of open enquiry this year...

Hope that helps!

[handyandy]

Letter dated 15/1/2008 relating to tax year 05/06 plus another dated 14/1/2009 relating to tax year 06/07 - both are an enquiry under COP8 (photocopy of the COP8 booklet was enclosed). Not heard a thing since then.

[webberg]

Thanks all.

A pattern is emerging but more is better.

[neil99]

Mine dated 7th January 2009 says
"This will be dealt with by Special Civil Investigations Office Solihull under Code of Practice 8. I refer you to www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/cop8.pdf, please read it carefully".

I note that this link now has a document that claims to have been first published on 28th August 2014!
The "Our service commitment to you" section is laughable. - promptly, accurately and accessible for example

Same for me - COP8 and no mention of section 9.

[paul1315]

ASIOM

Mine dated 7th January 2009 says
"This will be dealt with by Special Civil Investigations Office Solihull under Code of Practice 8. I refer you to www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/cop8.pdf, please read it carefully".

I note that this link now has a document that claims to have been first published on 28th August 2014!
The "Our service commitment to you" section is laughable. - promptly, accurately and accessible for example

[PeterF]

Peter, when was that letter dated please?

April '06 dated 1st July 2009
April '08 dated 27th November 2009

[webberg]

Edge, years ending April '06 and '08: "My check will be made under Section 9A of the Taxes Management Act 1970."

Peter, when was that letter dated please?

[PeterF]

Edge, years ending April '06 and '08: "My check will be made under Section 9A of the Taxes Management Act 1970."

[InNZ]

And if it helps, this is the CoP8 letter:

"Dear XXXX,
In January 2007 you received a letter indicating my intention to enquire into your 2004-05 Tax Return. The enquiry notice was issued to protect the position of HMRC and no queries were raised at that time.

This position has not altered, but the Code of Practice under which this notice was issued has been changed to Code of Practice 8. I attach a copy of this for your reference. Any Code of Practice previously issued is now withdrawn. No action is necessary by you in respect of this"

[InNZ]

I received 2 such letters, one in Jan 07 (relating to 2005 return) and one in Jan 08 (relating to 2006 return).
Both are almost identical, with the 2nd one differing as mentioned below.

"Dear XXXX,
Thank you for your tax return for the year ended 5 April 2005 (2006 for the 2nd letter)

I am writing to tell you that I intend to enquire into this return. Each year we enquire into some tax returns to check that they are correct, or because we need further information to understand the figures. We want to make sure you pay the right amount of tax, not too little or too much. I will let you know if I find anything wrong.

My enquiry is concerned with the employment income and benefits provided to you by your employer. I am hoping to deal with this matter centrally but I am opening this enquiry to protect the interests of HMRC, so that any adjustments eventually agreed may be reflected in an amendment to your self assessment if appropriate. I am also sending a copy of this letter to your accountant, Thomas & Co. You may wish to talk to your employer or your accountant about my letter.

I will not be checking other areas of your return unless you reply, or any other information, gives me reason to.

I enclose a copy of our Code of Practice concerning enquiries into tax returns. Please take time to read it."

The only difference between the two letters is that on the second one, "Edge Consulting Ltd' is used instead of "employer" in the main paragraph.

A year later I received a Cop 8 for my 2005 return. I never heard anything else about the 2006 investigation.

Hope this helps.

[webberg]

I'm running a bit of a survey.

From perhaps mid 2005 to early 2008 it appears that some HMRC template letters allegedly opening enquiries said something like

" I intend to enquire into year 20xx/xx, relating to your scheme xxxx. Please see attached COP8"

No mention of the legal statute under which an enquiry could be made.

I have details of that letter from some schemes and I'm wondering how widely it was used.

If you were able to have a look and indicate what year/scheme was involved, I'd appreciate it.