Reply to: Resisting the APN - how - why - other questions

[philinlondon]

I too have had an APN for 2011 (Closed period). The APN and re assessment came after the period closed. I have challenged this and HMRC stated they wrote to me in 2012 asking me to confirm that that I needed to confirm my Self assessment DOTAS amounts are correct i.e. claiming there was an open enquiry. They are saying this gives them the right to issue the APN. There was no re assessment made or calculation done or issued prior to April 2015. There was no COP8 notice. I had no right to appeal the revised calculation at the time as it was never issued. This is surely reason for it to fail any justification?

Would you mind sharing what you exactly wrote to HMRC? I too is in the same situration but have yet wrote to them as another member in another private forum had just wrote to them and I wanna see what is his outcome.

[DotasScandal]

I too have had an APN for 2011 (Closed period). The APN and re assessment came after the period closed. I have challenged this and HMRC stated they wrote to me in 2012 asking me to confirm that that I needed to confirm my Self assessment DOTAS amounts are correct i.e. claiming there was an open enquiry. They are saying this gives them the right to issue the APN. There was no re assessment made or calculation done or issued prior to April 2015. There was no COP8 notice. I had no right to appeal the revised calculation at the time as it was never issued. This is surely reason for it to fail any justification?

Yes. The problem is...it's going to be your word against HMRC's, basically. But there are many others in a similar situation.
Ask on Big Group if you are a member.

[cazza777]

I too have had an APN for 2011 (Closed period). The APN and re assessment came after the period closed. I have challenged this and HMRC stated they wrote to me in 2012 asking me to confirm that that I needed to confirm my Self assessment DOTAS amounts are correct i.e. claiming there was an open enquiry. They are saying this gives them the right to issue the APN. There was no re assessment made or calculation done or issued prior to April 2015. There was no COP8 notice. I had no right to appeal the revised calculation at the time as it was never issued. This is surely reason for it to fail any justification?

[LandRover]

Hi - I just received an APN relating to 2005/6. I saw a mention about a 4 year rule on this forum (above) and wondered is someone could provide any details on this?


Many thanks

Look here VAEC1143 - Powers of assessment: VAT assessment powers: The four year rule

and here CH56100 - Assessing Time Limits: Tables of time limits for relevant taxes: Income Tax & Capital Gains Tax

[CitySlicker]

4 year rule - where can I find the details pls?

I have been issued an APN for an EBT scheme for tax year 2010/11 the SRN and amount was disclosed on the return. The APN Calculated is after the 4 year period as ended. Can I dispute the APN based on the fact it outside the investigation period? i.e. They should have filed before 5th April 2015 given the 4 year rule?

Hi - I just received an APN relating to 2005/6. I saw a mention about a 4 year rule on this forum (above) and wondered is someone could provide any details on this?


Many thanks

[WalterWhite]

Update

Hi all,

Unfortunately I seem to have caused a bit of a stir, that wasnt my intention.

I have been discussing the situation with Webberg via PM and also offered my apologies.

With regards to an alter ego and/or an ex-poster on here I have to say I have no idea about any of that so cannot comment.

[convict]

Notifiable and notified/registered/declared are different. Think about it.

[webberg]

I understand that there are a number of issues that have been mentioned in the posts above and one that has not. I will attempt to address these.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-f-notices.pdf

The above is the HMRC guidance on FN and APN. Read section 2.4. This discusses how to make a representation against an APN because it is NOT POSSIBLE TO APPEAL.

An appeal in the tax lexicon means that you and HMRC have a dispute and if necessary both parties have recourse to an independent arbiter, i.e. a judge.

A representation as defined above means that you can take issue with the notice if the conditions for issue are not met or the notice is inadequate. If you do this, then HMRC appoint an officer to review the representation and if necessary make corrections. There is no reference to an independent arbiter available.

To date all APN's that I have seen have been for DOTAS registered schemes. I suspect that HMRC will in due course review schemes that have not been disclosed but which they think are notifiable and APN's will follow. I suggest that will be in about 15 months time.

BIG GROUP is NOT, as has been stated, there to deal with APNs. If this is required then I will certainly look at changing terms and fees.

I do make representations against APNs for clients who have signed on with me. They are charged separately.

I hope this is clear.

With respect I think there is some confusion between the conditions required to issue an APN and what you can do once you have one.

Finally, I understand that as a result of the exchanges here, there has been a suggestion that I am a reincarnation of another tax adviser who I understand has not earned a good reputation here. (I have never met this person and have no personal or professional opinion of him).

I am happy to share my bona fides with any who ask. If permitted by the admin team, I am happy to make a biography available.

I am very definitely NOT happy that comparisons with those of low reputation are made in a way designed to be less than transparent. If you have an issue with me or my advice, I'm very happy to discuss it privately or openly but please be honest and straightforward and just ask.

[WalterWhite]

I can pay this APN, which I will grudgingly.

the Non Dotas scheme is far greater

Unless there is a u-turn in the Rangers case (or another is won by HMRC) I dont see what grounds they can use to issue a follower notice at this moment in time - assuming the intermediary involved in your scheme was UK based meaning no way of using TOAA

[MercladUK]

Sorry to hear that,

I hope your provider is helping with the situation.

I can pay this APN, which I will grudgingly.

the Non Dotas scheme is far greater

[WalterWhite]

I was in a Dotas registered scheme in 2008 - APN received
I was also in a Non-Dotas registered scheme 2011 - No APN received

Sorry to hear that,

I hope your provider is helping with the situation.

[MercladUK]

*or have you made representations to HMRC?

I was in a Dotas registered scheme in 2008 - APN received
I was also in a Non-Dotas registered scheme 2011 - No APN received

[WalterWhite]

sigh

*or have you made representations to HMRC?

[MercladUK]

i have read up on the subject (just haven't read every thread on this forum as most of the schemes don't apply to me)

I assume you have not been issued with an APN if you were non-dotas registered? Or if you were you have appealed it?

sigh

[WalterWhite]

well if you have not bothered to read up about a subject and then are publicly declaring a 'tax expert' that he is wrong then I find this quite strange behaviour. The Big Group will try and encompass many of the common schemes as has been stated in the Big Group thread. I for one was a member of a Non Dotas registered scheme..

i have read up on the subject (just haven't read every thread on this forum as most of the schemes don't apply to me)

I assume you have not been issued with an APN if you were non-dotas registered? Or if you were you have appealed it?