Reply to: Oh why not fix it Dave?

[vetran]

You're going to the wrong gym mate. Plenty to pull in the gym near clientco. I've already got a Germanic goddess though.

Mind you, if you were a starving potato farmer in Ireland in the 18th/19th century, the prospect of a big chunk of land without a blight infection would be quite a pull factor.

That would push someone to leave the UK (where I am) was I in the US then I would regard the free land as a pull factor.

Me I have a Berkshire Babe so I'm strictly look not touch at the gym! Doesn't sound as posh as a Germanic goddess though.

[Mich the Tester]

push & pull aren't necessarily joined.

the pull of the jam doughnut isn't the same as the push to go to the gym.

You're going to the wrong gym mate. Plenty to pull in the gym near clientco. I've already got a Germanic goddess though.

Mind you, if you were a starving potato farmer in Ireland in the 18th/19th century, the prospect of a big chunk of land without a blight infection would be quite a pull factor.

[vetran]

Slight contradiction here?

push & pull aren't necessarily joined.

the pull of the jam doughnut isn't the same as the push to go to the gym.

[Mich the Tester]

there weren't the pull factors, and the push factors were the grinding poverty in the UK compared to free land for everyone in the US.

Slight contradiction here?

[speling bee]

Those that emigrated had enough for their fare which was a significant amount even in steerage.

They didn't typically pay their own fares. Landlords would often pay to stop them being a 'local problem'.

[vetran]

It wasn't just the rich Irish that emmigrated en masse to the US, and there certainly were no benefits waiting for them.

Probably the reason immigration to Britain wasn't a big problem is that the people of Britain were just as poor, miserable and oppressed as everybody else.

Those that emigrated had enough for their fare which was a significant amount even in steerage.

there weren't the pull factors, and the push factors were the grinding poverty in the UK compared to free land for everyone in the US.

[speling bee]

you think Labour are the alternative?

Vote UKIP!

They are all *******.

[vetran]

You missed the capitalist class's right-wing strategy of divide and rule (using racism, xenophobia, homophobia, 'traditional values') to persuade a segment of the working class to support a political system that is not in their economic interests.

you think Labour are the alternative?

Vote UKIP!

[VectraMan]

only the rich and very determined were able to travel? Also there was no benefit system you swam or sank.

It wasn't just the rich Irish that emmigrated en masse to the US, and there certainly were no benefits waiting for them.

Probably the reason immigration to Britain wasn't a big problem is that the people of Britain were just as poor, miserable and oppressed as everybody else.

[speling bee]

only the rich and very determined were able to travel? Also there was no benefit system you swam or sank.

Some of the right wing capitalists want immigration, the right wing workers realise its foolish. The left wing ruling class want to rub the right wing's nose in it and gerrymander, some of the left wing workers can see they will be shafted.

You missed the capitalist class's right-wing strategy of divide and rule (using racism, xenophobia, homophobia, 'traditional values') to persuade a segment of the working class to support a political system that is not in their economic interests.

[vetran]

It's interesting that the left wing politicians tend to be more pro-immigration, and the anti-immigration rhetoric tends to come from the right. Yet it's the workers that the left wing are meant to represent that are the ones that fear immigration costing them jobs, whereas you'd think the more pro-capitalist right wing would just want as many cheap workers for their factories as they can get.

IIRC we had no immigration controls at all until after WWI, and I guess the country did okay before that.

only the rich and very determined were able to travel? Also there was no benefit system you swam or sank.

Some of the right wing capitalists want immigration, the right wing workers realise its foolish. The left wing ruling class want to rub the right wing's nose in it and gerrymander, some of the left wing workers can see they will be shafted.

[VectraMan]

I often wonder about immigration controls - are they a socialist invention. Because in capitalism you would not need them, or would you?

It's interesting that the left wing politicians tend to be more pro-immigration, and the anti-immigration rhetoric tends to come from the right. Yet it's the workers that the left wing are meant to represent that are the ones that fear immigration costing them jobs, whereas you'd think the more pro-capitalist right wing would just want as many cheap workers for their factories as they can get.

IIRC we had no immigration controls at all until after WWI, and I guess the country did okay before that.

[original PM]

One problem is that business doesn't want, or cannot afford, to pay what British workers demand, so we need to ship in people willing to work for the minimum wage to keep business happy. Being seen as anti-business has historically made parties unelectable so it's just not going to happen without a bit of a sea change.

The other problem is usefulness. There are, without doubt, some people who are so ******* useless that they cannot do the jobs that "anyone can do" and there is little else for it but to pay them to stay out of the way. Unfortunately we can only fit so many of them into the house of commons and so the rest need to go on the dole. Perhaps if we introduced a "useless wasters allowance" this would make it's true purpose clearer.

Thing is people need to see flipping burgers and waiting tables as jobs - jobs for the unskilled/students etc who just want to earn some money - they are not career paths and as such do not expect regular reviews and yearly payrise. They are a stop gap while you get trained to do something which will earn more money.


And as usual yes we have some lazy feckers who could do the job but refuse to - we have had the discussion so many times - stop any benefits and let them starve.

[lilelvis2000]

I often wonder about immigration controls - are they a socialist invention. Because in capitalism you would not need them, or would you?

Would the world be better off without controls at all. That way people who really do want to live somewhere else..where they know they could get a job...could just go.

This mid-life crisis stuff is real isn't it?

[doodab]

do you know any unemployed people or people on benefits?

I know a few working people on benefits. Including me, but I don't really count.

I try not to associate with the truly unemployable any more. I grew up among them, that was enough for me.