Reply to: Portugal land grab

[Flashman]

Why don't these expats just take citizenship in their adopted countries ?

Then at least we wouldn't have to listen to their constant whining.

[darmstadt]

Portugal 'land grab' laws: meet the families who could lose homes - Telegraph

British families could lose their homes due to draconian laws passing through parliament in Portugal

Who would be stupid enough to buy a house in Portugal?

Germany too, nearly: No wartime paperwork? Tear down your home - The Local

[darmstadt]

The Telegraph don't seem to think so:




Were I the EU I would be reining this in and explaining to the relevant countries how damaging this is to the perception of the EU as a good place to live or do business. Not advising people to get a lawyer.

Obviously not many people read the Telegraph then: Foreign buyers delight in the glut of Spain's cheap Costa properties | World news | The Observer

Mind you stick in 'spanish property repossession' into Google and look at the amount of websites selling repossessed properties. These can't all be from ones from 'Ley Reguladora de la Actividad Urbanística.' Also in Spain, town planning laws are devolved to the autonomous regions, which explains why there is a problem in some regions, and not in others. A lot of this happened due to corrupt local politicians working with property developers and there have already been some court cases against these people. Just for clarification, the EU has no jurisdiction over national planning laws, so is powerless to intervene on this front (for new development that is.)

[OwlHoot]

I´m trying hard to panic because I bought a house in another EU country, namely the Netherlands.

I´m not succeeding though.

If the Dutch bring in similar legislation to "protect" waterways, you're fecked.

Nowehere in Holland is further than about two feet from water is it?

[BrilloPad]

Your really are unfair.

Only when posting on cuk. LIke everyone else here.

[CloudWalker]

Could they sell up , and buy again? e.g house swap

[doodab]

Were I the EU I would be reining this in and explaining to the relevant countries how damaging this is to the perception of the EU as a good place to live or do business. Not advising people to get a lawyer.

But to do that they would need more power, which you are dead set against giving them

[Mich the Tester]

Were I the EU I would be reining this in and explaining to the relevant countries how damaging this is to the perception of the EU as a good place to live or do business. Not advising people to get a lawyer.

Yes, indeed, and that's why I say they should get a lawyer, so they can move this on so the EU sorts it out. As you have said, property laws are pretty fundamental. However, maybe the qualified lawyer (as opposed to the trainee barrister) will tell them it can be solved within Portuguese law and the EU won't need to take action.

[vetran]

I was under the impression that much of the property that has been repossessed in Spain was either due to people not being able to pay their mortgages (they thought they could rent out as holiday homes but didn't work out) or unscrupulous developers sold the property or land event though there was no permit to actually build there which is actually a bit different...

The Telegraph don't seem to think so:

The situation in Portugal is being compared with Spain's notorious "land grab" law, under which hundreds of expatriate Britons lost homes on the Costa Blanca in the early 2000s.
Under a loophole in the law, known as the Ley Reguladora de la Actividad Urbanística (LRAU) and originally intended to speed up development on the Costa Blanca, developers could compulsorily purchase prime rural land by saying it was for urban development.
Developers made more than 20,000 compulsory purchases at fractions of the market value and many homes were demolished. In 2004 the European Parliament condemned the law and criticised apparent corruption among developers, officials and lawyers, but its call for a halt to the practice was ignored. In 2005 the European Commission stepped in and ordered Spain to resolve the situation.

Were I the EU I would be reining this in and explaining to the relevant countries how damaging this is to the perception of the EU as a good place to live or do business. Not advising people to get a lawyer.

[SueEllen]

Might be time to phone a barrister who's completed his/her training and has read article 17 of the EU's charter of Fundamental Rights.

Harsh... but fair.

Also it seems it doesn't need to be a barrister it just needs to be someone with a clue....

[doodab]

What is the point of belonging to the EU if they can't stop this sort of thing?

Kerching for the euro-lawyers!

Which way do you actually expect it to work then?

[darmstadt]

Spain did the same, we either have a EU where people who invest in property can enjoy that or we have free for all where member states do immoral things and expect their victims to have to protect themselves with expensive laws.

Sorry this sort of behaviour makes me doubt the validity of the EU.

I was under the impression that much of the property that has been repossessed in Spain was either due to people not being able to pay their mortgages (they thought they could rent out as holiday homes but didn't work out) or unscrupulous developers sold the property or land event though there was no permit to actually build there which is actually a bit different...

[Mich the Tester]

Property rights are fairly fundamental, if the EU can't manage that then its not much use.

As I've shown, the EU has laws to protect property rights. It is, unfortunately, a long and expensive process to use those laws, but they could start by by contacting somebody who is qualified in Portuguese property laws, and thereby should at least understand Article 17 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights and how to use it in a court case. Let me google that for you. They might not even have to go so far as the European courts, if they can convince a court in Portugal of their rights.

What's being done to those people appears to be very unjust indeed and utterly wrong, but perhaps the EU law is actually their only protection against what the Portuguese government is doing. Or perhaps the European Convention on Human Rights (which is not an EU thingummy).

They could take the EU Charter route, or outside the EU, the European Convention on Human Rights, European Convention on Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia depending on what the fully qualified lawyer says gives them the best chance, instead of simply believing a ´trainee barrister´.

I don't know what the Portuguese constitution has to say about this, so I don't know if that's an option for them.

[vetran]

But on the one hand Eurosceptics complain that countries are being forced to comply with EU law, and on the other hand you want property rights enforced across the whole EU and you don't think that's happening. Which is it to be?

Property rights are fairly fundamental, if the EU can't manage that then its not much use.

[Mich the Tester]

Spain did the same, we either have a EU where people who invest in property can enjoy that or we have free for all where member states do immoral things and expect their victims to have to protect themselves with expensive laws.

Sorry this sort of behaviour makes me doubt the validity of the EU.

But on the one hand Eurosceptics complain that countries are being forced to comply with EU law, and on the other hand you want property rights enforced across the whole EU and you don't think that's happening. Which is it to be?