Reply to: Never as complicated or sophisticated as client makes out

[darmstadt]

When I got my first ever job and qualifications were discussed I mentioned I had a couple of English O'levels which prompted the reply: "the best ones, at least you'll be able to RTFM and understand it!"

[eek]

When I was looking for my first contract role, I was interviewed for something that I had the skills for, but not the in-depth experience of one niche part of the module. But I knew people who I could call on for advice, and the manuals etc.

The interviewer picked me up on that particular point, and the conversation was something like:

Me: if you want someone who knows the manual inside out, then that's not me; if you want someone who has a good track record of delivering across a range of modules including this one, then that's me

Interviewer: Yeah, we want someone who knows the manual inside out

Me: Well, that's not me, so I guess we should end the interview, really

Strangely enough, I didn't get that role

As I consultant many years ago I was taught you only need to be 1/2 a page ahead of the client at any 1 point....

[TheFaQQer]

That reminds me of a nightmare contract that was up for grabs in the early-nineties when work was scarce.

The client had apparently got through a few folks already because as soon as he caught them looking something up in a book they got their marching orders. This was in the days before internet or even decent built in help.

I didn't bother applying for that gig.

When I was looking for my first contract role, I was interviewed for something that I had the skills for, but not the in-depth experience of one niche part of the module. But I knew people who I could call on for advice, and the manuals etc.

The interviewer picked me up on that particular point, and the conversation was something like:

Me: if you want someone who knows the manual inside out, then that's not me; if you want someone who has a good track record of delivering across a range of modules including this one, then that's me

Interviewer: Yeah, we want someone who knows the manual inside out

Me: Well, that's not me, so I guess we should end the interview, really

Strangely enough, I didn't get that role

[doodab]

This, but maybe thats why its all so disorganised. Companies get contractors, consultants, external firms, internal staff who have been on training courses and thisnk they know better and slowly, over time, the procedures become a mish-mash of everyone's input. The best places I have seen are those that still use the same procedures that they implemented from day one and are maintained by one person only or those who have junked the old procedures and started afresh.

I think most such things work better when you have a singular vision coming from strong leadership. Sadly in a lot of places that leadership is missing. Delegating is all well and good but the vision and leadership need to come from the top, not be handed off to underlings.

Personally I don't really have procedures and try to work around the ones in place which is why my work gets done and finished on time (or earlier.)

I have what I would call a "working method". I tend to do things my way (cos, as you observe, it works) and I look at supplying whatever I need to fit in to the existing structures as an additional task to be performed.

This usually means assessing the technical risks for myself and tackling the biggest ones upfront when most people's instinct seems to be to kick them down the road cos they are "hard". This often means I will go off at tangents based on my intuition, usually to the chagrin of some people who think I'm wasting time and should be getting on with something else, but 8 or 9 times out of 10 those tangents pay dividends later on.

[norrahe]

This, but maybe thats why its all so disorganised. Companies get contractors, consultants, external firms, internal staff who have been on training courses and thisnk they know better and slowly, over time, the procedures become a mish-mash of everyone's input. The best places I have seen are those that still use the same procedures that they implemented from day one and are maintained by one person only or those who have junked the old procedures and started afresh. Personally I don't really have procedures and try to work around the ones in place which is why my work gets done and finished on time (or earlier.)

I agree, and as you said I just get on with it and get things done. But am often surprised when the disorganised people around me often go off ill with stress.

I suppose being a non permie, you are outside it all and can be objective.

[doodab]

That reminds me of a nightmare contract that was up for grabs in the early-nineties when work was scarce.

The client had apparently got through a few folks already because as soon as he caught them looking something up in a book they got their marching orders. This was in the days before internet or even decent built in help.

I didn't bother applying for that gig.

That's mental. I've pretty much made my career work by skimming manuals cover to cover and remembering where to find information when I need it, supplemented with a lovingly maintained and pretty sizeable personal notebook that covers everything from basic admin tasks on most major OS, databases and various other bits of software I occasionally need to deal with to all the stuff that the vendor that makes the niche software I deal with decided to leave out of the manuals. Sure, the regularly used stuff gets held in memory but you can't cover the full stack across multiple platforms without referring to manuals. And you do need manuals, google is great for getting a quick answer when your in a tight spot but if you want to actually understand a product the manuals are the place to start.

[Mich the Tester]

Personally I don't really have procedures and try to work around the ones in place which is why my work gets done and finished on time (or earlier.)

WHS

[darmstadt]

Same here, I often wonder what all the fuss is about especially at current clientco as they run around like headless chickens and are completely disorganised.

I'd love to give them a few pointers on improving procedure but don't think they'd get it.

Am getting fed up with requests for a&b, only to deliver it and it should have been x,y&z and apparently I should have worked that out ( I'm not a fecking mind reader). I also got asked to make their reporting more clear and concise, but then manager panicked as they said it looked liked there wasn't much going on in the programme ( its a summary!!!), so I had to add lots of nonsense back into the report.

This, but maybe thats why its all so disorganised. Companies get contractors, consultants, external firms, internal staff who have been on training courses and thisnk they know better and slowly, over time, the procedures become a mish-mash of everyone's input. The best places I have seen are those that still use the same procedures that they implemented from day one and are maintained by one person only or those who have junked the old procedures and started afresh. Personally I don't really have procedures and try to work around the ones in place which is why my work gets done and finished on time (or earlier.)

[doodab]

I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where there isn't one or two things which prompt the question "why on earth, do you do that, that way?"

+1. Everywhere has it's foibles. Not necessarily complex but you do see some odd things sometimes.

[psychocandy]

That reminds me of a nightmare contract that was up for grabs in the early-nineties when work was scarce.

The client had apparently got through a few folks already because as soon as he caught them looking something up in a book they got their marching orders. This was in the days before internet or even decent built in help.

I didn't bother applying for that gig.

Seriously? If they looked in the manual they got the boot?

What did they want? Someone who could do the job or someone who knew the manual off by heart?

[eek]

Maybe you only get offered easy contracts.

Or Im just mega clever.

I think every post you've made on here confirms its the former rather than the latter....

[psychocandy]

Maybe you only get offered easy contracts.

Or Im just mega clever.

[eek]

Same here, I often wonder what all the fuss is about especially at current clientco as they run around like headless chickens and are completely disorganised.

I'd love to give them a few pointers on improving procedure but don't think they'd get it.

Why? I've learnt over the years its pointless. I offer a couple of times and then just sit back and enjoy the entertainment. Although I will admit that current panic management is more fun to watch than most.... That may be because Mr Mac has to directly suffer their decisions while I'm 1 further step removed....

[norrahe]

I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where there isn't one or two things which prompt the question "why on earth, do you do that, that way?"

Same here, I often wonder what all the fuss is about especially at current clientco as they run around like headless chickens and are completely disorganised.

I'd love to give them a few pointers on improving procedure but don't think they'd get it.

Am getting fed up with requests for a&b, only to deliver it and it should have been x,y&z and apparently I should have worked that out ( I'm not a fecking mind reader). I also got asked to make their reporting more clear and concise, but then manager panicked as they said it looked liked there wasn't much going on in the programme ( its a summary!!!), so I had to add lots of nonsense back into the report.

[Sysman]

WHS, leading to the possible answers;

- 'that's how we've always done it'
or
- 'it's best practice'

Both of which can irritate me somewhat.

How's about:

It's got to run with full privileges because it's special

Absolute cobblers! Just fixing basic things like file ownership meant it could run fine with ordinary privilege levels.