Reply to: Are German companies really more efficient that those in the UK?

[SueEllen]

If they make a profit good for them

Niche products and yeah both make profit.

[AtW]

Now my experience of German companies is pretty limited to 3 companies but my experience has been that far from being efficient they are bureaucratic, overly formal and don't go out of the way to actually help.

That makes them more efficient.

HTH

[sasguru]

Things like this?

And like this?

The Chinese apparently like this kind of stuff..............

If they make a profit good for them

[SueEllen]

We can do engineering as good as anybody, but maybe rightly, we are concentrating on more added value sectors.

Things like this?

And like this?

The Chinese apparently like this kind of stuff..............

[mos]

For example where I am now, people come in early and do some work but it seems most is spent talking with other early birds, then its off to breakfast. During the day there's a lot of interaction with other people which a lot seems to be reasonably social, then there are the numerous parties to attend (we had 2 piss-ups last week, and sometimes they can last most of the day and when its in your office, you're ****ed), lunch followed by coffee and maybe a coffee break or 2 later. Admittedly they do work quite hard when they do, but not as hard as the English contractor (and I do pretty much **** all most days!)

How about job security and staff turnover? I found folks in German comps very cooperative and sharing, which was such a big difference from rampant Bobalisation in the UK.
I found similar spirit at well known payment processor in the UK which also had very low staff turnover. But it got LBOd.

[darmstadt]

I've worked for a number of Germany companies, there's the good and the bad. Between them the share one commonality. The people work when at work. No facebook or endless conversations at the coffee machine like you find at UK companies. German companies are certainly more productive and hence folks can spend less time in the office.

You sure about that? I have to admit I might be biased having worked in numerous German companies for the last 25 years. I think you'll actually find it comes down to what branch they're working in and then what department. For example where I am now, people come in early and do some work but it seems most is spent talking with other early birds, then its off to breakfast. During the day there's a lot of interaction with other people which a lot seems to be reasonably social, then there are the numerous parties to attend (we had 2 piss-ups last week, and sometimes they can last most of the day and when its in your office, you're ****ed), lunch followed by coffee and maybe a coffee break or 2 later. Admittedly they do work quite hard when they do, but not as hard as the English contractor (and I do pretty much **** all most days!)

[scooterscot]

Big companies, no. The employees, yes.

I've worked for a number of Germany companies, there's the good and the bad. Between them the share one commonality. The people work when at work. No facebook or endless conversations at the coffee machine like you find at UK companies. German companies are certainly more productive and hence folks can spend less time in the office.

[SunnyInHades]

To confuse a German CEO say

"its a red herring"

I've seen a very experienced, mature German IT manger question the meaning of that

"your 'aving a giraffe" works in a similar way - that one stumped an experienced Aussie

[vetran]

SAP versus Oracle for usability and sensible implementation then SAP wins every time. There are lot less WTF moments with SAP.

SAP however is a big investment and yes you have to change your organisation (but normally 'organisation' is a very loose definition for the bunch of bodges most companies implement), but once you do it can be very impressive.

The Germans in our company seem to understand how to implement SAP so it works. But they are Bureaucratic and their forms take the mick, we had to get the UK team to translate & streamline.

Once you find a helpful German they are normally very competent if busy.

They seem to spend more effort getting it right technically and there is more pride in it.

[Mich the Tester]

You ever fly? Because chances are good that engines on your plane were built in either the US (Pratt and Whitney) or UK (Rolls Royce) and they seem pretty reliable
Furthermore cars made in British factories nowadays are as reliable as any in the world
You may argue that the car companies are foreign owned, but a car like the Nissan Qashqai is almost totally British from conception to design to build.

Huge and complex submarines for the Royal Navy seem Ok too.

We can do engineering as good as anybody, but maybe rightly, we are concentrating on more added value sectors.

On a recent trip to the UK I had the pleasure of visiting the JC Bamford factory in Staffordshire. Anyone who thinks British industry is somehow lagging behind or unable to produce high quality, high-tech stuff should really go and take a look; they do factory tours. Might visit JLR next time around as a I find factories quite interesting places.

[sasguru]

FWIW I think the industry with the most potential over the next century is one which the UK is very good at: biotech.

[sasguru]

That's why most German products are successful and wanted all over the world and British well they fail most of the time

You ever fly? Because chances are good that engines on your plane were built in either the US (Pratt and Whitney) or UK (Rolls Royce) and they seem pretty reliable
Furthermore cars made in British factories nowadays are as reliable as any in the world
You may argue that the car companies are foreign owned, but a car like the Nissan Qashqai is almost totally British from conception to design to build.

Huge and complex submarines for the Royal Navy seem Ok too.

We can do engineering as good as anybody, but maybe rightly, we are concentrating on more added value sectors.

[Mich the Tester]

From my experience it varies depending on region, size of company etc but in general the German service sector is not a patch on the UK's. They're a manufacturing powerhouse, we (the SE anyway) are a services powerhouse.

Each has its strengths and weaknesses, and good German businesspeople (or indeed any good businesspeople) recognise that and try to get the best from all; that's why German businesses that make 'big metal things' buy software and financial services from Britain and logistics services from NL and British businesses and consumers buy machinery and finished products from Germany. I am in danger of stating the bleeding obvious here.

[sasguru]

From my experience it varies depending on region, size of company etc but in general the German service sector is not a patch on the UK's. They're a manufacturing powerhouse, we (the SE anyway) are a services powerhouse.
Most of my interactions with German management have not impressed me with their efficiency, quite the opposite in fact. As far as the knowledge economy goes (IT, finance, biotech) we are much better, that's because our best people are better educated (our best universities are better than theirs). Germans are better at training their drone bees to a high standard so they're better at manufacturing.

[Dallas]

The german IB I am at is in bed with SAP as a result the permie IT turnover is really high because nothing ever gets delivered so no one gets promoted.

And they are not allowed to sack anyone because they (the local permies) head for the train lines and jump.

Contract for life - project #3, year #4.