Reply to: Why the Left hate Israel

[GB9]

You have missed the whole point of the thread. My argument is that the left hate Israel because it is an advanced western style democracy. hating such a country goes down well with lefties. read the link. and if you have a counter argument then argue it. if not shut up.

And you have missed the point of a lot of the replies.

We don't think it is an advanced western style democracy. We think it is a backward, paranoid hot house full of land grabbing terrorists. Well I do at least. And that is speaking as a rightie.

[NotAllThere]

Another one who thinks its cool to hate Israel. If you hate them so much go out to Palestine and give away your riches to those that are suffering out there.

Hey come on. The Palestinians get plenty of support. At €500 a pop, the 2257 Qassam rockets launched at Israel from Gaza in 2012, cost over €1M. That money came from somewhere!

[DodgyAgent]

Don't tell me, you're shagging an Israeli bird. Hope your wife doesn't find out.

Shalom

[DodgyAgent]

Most "advanced western style democracies" are the way they are at least in part because of the work of the moderate left, particularly in western Europe but also in the US and many other places. To suggest that these states are "hated by the left" is patent nonsense when much of the negativity towards them comes from a US led "neo-con" or "libertarian" right wing which seeks to attack the institutions of the state and subvert democracy in the interests of big business while forcing their economic and social agenda upon what are perfectly functional democracies.

What is disliked by the left is this right wing, rabidly anti socialist agenda. If the Israelis are disliked "in general" by the left then it's probably because the outcome of their particular democratic process is seen to be aligned with those natural enemies of democratic socialism.

First of all well done in making an effort at a proper argument. We all have to start somewhere. What is not so clever is that you have decided to bring in an argument that bears only a tenuous relevance to my central point which is that the left hate Israel because it is a totem of a successful western democracy that is not ashamed of itself.

I would not really take issue about your comments about the US right and the advance of big business to subvert the institutions of government. in fact I whole heartedly agree with you. My point is not to try and moralise between right and left (which is what lefties try to do whenever they start to lose an argument). My point is to illustrate the concept of self loathing. proper lefties who I admire have social consciences who make the best of the positive aspects of market economies (of which there are many) whilst at the same time seeking to ensure that not everything is driven purely for profit. these are not the people I am talking about.

My axe is with the many lefties who are happy to take what they can for themselves but pretend to have moral virtue by attacking any target that makes no excuse or apologies for being what they themselves are.

[Churchill]

Another one who thinks its cool to hate Israel. If you hate them so much go out to Palestine and give away your riches to those that are suffering out there.

Don't tell me, you're shagging an Israeli bird. Hope your wife doesn't find out.

[doodab]

Sorry I thought you were talking about the corporatist Labour party then

They, particularly under Blair, are as guilty as anyone IMO.

[MicrosoftBob]

To suggest that these states are "hated by the left" is patent nonsense when much of the negativity towards them comes from a US led "neo-con" or "libertarian" right wing which seeks to attack the institutions of the state and subvert democracy in the interests of big business while forcing their economic and social agenda upon what are perfectly functional democracies. .

Sorry I thought you were talking about the corporatist Labour party then

[doodab]

You have missed the whole point of the thread. My argument is that the left hate Israel because it is an advanced western style democracy. hating such a country goes down well with lefties. read the link. and if you have a counter argument then argue it. if not shut up.

Most "advanced western style democracies" are the way they are at least in part because of the work of the moderate left, particularly in western Europe but also in the US and many other places. To suggest that these states are "hated by the left" is patent nonsense when much of the negativity towards them comes from a US led "neo-con" or "libertarian" right wing which seeks to attack the institutions of the state and subvert democracy in the interests of big business while forcing their economic and social agenda upon what are perfectly functional democracies.

What is disliked by the left is this right wing, rabidly anti socialist agenda. If the Israelis are disliked "in general" by the left then it's probably because the outcome of their particular democratic process is seen to be aligned with those natural enemies of democratic socialism.

[DodgyAgent]

The ridiculousness of your arguments appear to have no limits. Nobody said it was cool to hate Israel as much as it is cool to hate Hitler or cool to hate Saddam. What does cool have to do with hate anyway? Hate is a term used to describe the repulsion and disgust one has with the actions and policies of a terrorist state.

Do you hate Al Qaeda? is that cool as well?

You have missed the whole point of the thread. My argument is that the left hate Israel because it is an advanced western style democracy. hating such a country goes down well with lefties. read the link. and if you have a counter argument then argue it. if not shut up.

[Goatfell]

Israel deliberately shoot a couple of unarmed palestinian professional footballers in the feet they are pilloried as terrorists

I would hope that no-one here would consider that as justifiable, even if the youths were about to throw a bomb. I am equally sure that no-one would regard the targetting of a school bus as justifiable either. One can quote incidents of this nature ad nauseam, all it does is prove that tulip happens in a war zone and that neither side are the "good guys".

The Jews as a people seem to have had a particularly bad image throughout history probably equalled only by that of the Romanys (Gypsies), ranging from disdain to hatred and culminating in the "Final Solution". Since Israel was formed they have been surrounded by nations avowed to pushing them into the sea and have had to fight for their survival. I once heard an Israeli saying that he could not understand how Jews in Europe had allowed themselves to be meekly embarked on the trains. When you have known people with tattoos on their arms it possibly explains - not excuses - their stance.

One point I would make is that while Israel have convicted IDF troops of crimes (not many admittedly), I'm unaware of any Palestinians that have been convicted by Hamas etc

As with all sectarian conflicts, both sides claim they are only reacting to the other . . .

Billy Connolly - Football Violence - YouTube

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Another one who thinks its cool to hate Israel. If you hate them so much go out to Palestine and give away your riches to those that are suffering out there.

The ridiculousness of your arguments appear to have no limits. Nobody said it was cool to hate Israel as much as it is cool to hate Hitler or cool to hate Saddam. What does cool have to do with hate anyway? Hate is a term used to describe the repulsion and disgust one has with the actions and policies of a terrorist state.

Do you hate Al Qaeda? is that cool as well?

[DodgyAgent]

WTF are you on about.

there are a million and one reasons to hate Israel which has absolutely nothing to do with them being Jewish.

Just look at the way they are responding to the international community at present. The sheer arrogance of Israel to trample on others rights and continue to insist they are the oppressed ones is sufficient a reason to hate the Israeli state (notice the use of the word "state").

Another one who thinks its cool to hate Israel. If you hate them so much go out to Palestine and give away your riches to those that are suffering out there.

[DodgyAgent]

I think the main reason the left hates Israel is because it loves the Palestinians, who are seen as underdogs.

Political Correctness taken to excess (as opposed to in moderation, which is no more than consideration for others and good manners) is basically about uncritical unconditional support for "victims", and is rooted in conceit and a feeling of superiority.

After all if you can find some victim to champion then you must be a caring person, right? And in a stronger position than them. What's not to like about all that if you yearn for approval?

They actually don't give a sh*t about the Palestinians. they are more concerned about making the right noises to show "they care". If they really cared they would investigate the Palestinians thoroughly and target key areas to which they would give money. As they have no money of their own or they are too mean and selfish they are just happy to "hate" their so called oppressors

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I have previously condemned this practice. I still think it is used an excuse to disguise Nazi anti semitism.

WTF are you on about.

there are a million and one reasons to hate Israel which has absolutely nothing to do with them being Jewish.

Just look at the way they are responding to the international community at present. The sheer arrogance of Israel to trample on others rights and continue to insist they are the oppressed ones is sufficient a reason to hate the Israeli state (notice the use of the word "state").

[MicrosoftBob]

Is "yest" supposed to be "yes" or "yet"?

I wouldn't normally nitpick, but one means you agree and the other the opposite!

Yet, somehow I fell into Brizzle

Which wouldn't be so bad, apart from I've never lived there