Reply to: Scottish Politicians, are they worse than other politicians?

[minestrone]

You lot will only see the more lucid and presentable ones.

There are some absolute nutters floating about Scottish politics with crackpot ideas that have a disturbingly large support.

[DodgyAgent]

Something that different from the same old blue versus red corrupt establishment.

Like what? Pink vs Green?

[MicrosoftBob]

What does "voting for change" actually mean? All these idiots who want "change" have little idea of what "change" means

They don't know that they really want to swap being ruled by english civil servants to dutch civil servants

[scooterscot]

What does "voting for change" actually mean? All these idiots who want "change" have little idea of what "change" means

Something that different from the same old blue versus red corrupt establishment.

[DodgyAgent]

Not sure I care to hear what politicians have to say these days.

The people that live in the north don't vote or think like the people in the south. This opportunity to vote for change is an opportunity for the residents and not for politicians.

What does "voting for change" actually mean? All these idiots who want "change" have little idea of what "change" means

[Mich the Tester]

Usually? Presumably your in favour when you think the people might vote the 'right' way?

No; I'm in favour of representative democracy, not 'direct democracy'. I would be in favour of people electing representatives to a seperate negotiating body if necessary in this case, but I'm not some kind of anti-democratic type who wants to manipulate things such that people can't vote against what I want. Far from it; I want the democratic process to lead to solutions that most people can live with, not just a new set of equally bad problems that shift problems to a different set of victims than the last lot of problems.

[Flashman]

But it's not an opportunity; it's a binary choice that excludes all compromise or all moderate solutions that are somewhere in between. Independence, yes or no, that's the only choice. I'm sure there are lots of Scots residents who would actually like to say 'umm, er...hmm...well I'm not entirely happy with the current arrangements but how about sitting down and negotiating new arrangements for the future?'

That's why I am usually opposed to referenda.

Usually? Presumably your in favour when you think the people might vote the 'right' way?

I think the Scottish referendum is a good thing if it finally means the Scots will actually put up or shut up. No more devolution or negotiations. If the Scots stay then no more freebies like free prescription and free university tuition.


Of course this won't happen our awfully nice PM Cameron will bribe them with even more handouts

Another 300 years of moaning coming up......

[NotAllThere]

But it's not an opportunity; it's a binary choice that excludes all compromise or all moderate solutions that are somewhere in between. Independence, yes or no, that's the only choice. I'm sure there are lots of Scots residents who would actually like to say 'umm, er...hmm...well I'm not entirely happy with the current arrangements but how about sitting down and negotiating new arrangements for the future?'

Which is exactly why Cameron has done it like that.

[scooterscot]

FTFY

You already have had a vote on the referendum for the last 300 years.

[MicrosoftBob]

I'm fairly certain were it a question of financial independence, whatever the outcome, the yes vote would be in the bag if English voters could vote on Scottish independence.

FTFY

[scooterscot]

But it's not an opportunity; it's a binary choice that excludes all compromise or all moderate solutions that are somewhere in between. Independence, yes or no, that's the only choice. I'm sure there are lots of Scots residents who would actually like to say 'umm, er...hmm...well I'm not entirely happy with the current arrangements but how about sitting down and negotiating new arrangements for the future?'

That's why I am usually opposed to referenda.

Ich auch.

However I don't see this binary choice. Assuming a no vote wins. I think it'll make a big difference to the choices made for Scotland if 30% vote no instead of 60%. You just cannot ignore the wishes of that many people despite the result.

I'm fairly certain were it a question of financial independence, whatever the outcome, the yes vote would be in the bag.

[Mich the Tester]

Not sure I care to hear what politicians have to say these days.

The people that live in the north don't vote or think like the people in the south. This opportunity to vote for change is an opportunity for the residents and not for politicians.

But it's not an opportunity; it's a binary choice that excludes all compromise or all moderate solutions that are somewhere in between. Independence, yes or no, that's the only choice. I'm sure there are lots of Scots residents who would actually like to say 'umm, er...hmm...well I'm not entirely happy with the current arrangements but how about sitting down and negotiating new arrangements for the future?'

That's why I am usually opposed to referenda.

[scooterscot]

Not sure I care to hear what politicians have to say these days.

The people that live in the north don't vote or think like the people in the south. This opportunity to vote for change is an opportunity for the residents and not for politicians.

[Mich the Tester]

Question Time last night.

Even if the people of Scotland don't want independence, can their rabid politicians have it please? They still live in a world where everything is Thatcher's fault and everyone is entitled to everything free.

Sheesh.

Well, more like actually

See Darmstadt's thread about misinformation about the EU. Same old thing; nationalists peddling what their chosen market segment want to hear.

[Platypus]

So presumably everything will then be the EUs fault if they get independence

No, it'll be the mess they inherited from the Tories / English* after 5 / 307 * years of mis-rule



* Delete as appropriate