Reply to: Bring back John Major

[KentPhilip]

I love socialism/communism, but I know it's not viable so long as greed and avarice rule in society

Greed and avarice are dominant in human nature - it is the engine of darwinian evolution. There is no way a set of rules is able to eliminate its effect on society without destroying it.

[Old Greg]

It was part of an agenda to establish true communism, i.e. true equality amongst the proleteriat in the USSR, with the true removal of serfdom which we know still continued after the establishment is the USSR, and ultimately the demise of the Kulak and a new start, which at the tome and even now, can't and won't work.

Some sort of socialism could work, as has constantly in Scandinavian countries and occasionally in UK and Germany since WW2, but at that time USSR wasn't ready, and neither is it now, it was flawed, it failed, it cost lives and misery, but I still like the idea, gotta be more to like that fukin each over to make a profit?

Really? Am I so naive?

I think you're incorrect in your analysis.

You seem to be saying that the USSR was part of an agenda to establish... (i.e. there was an intent to be socialist) and that therefore it was socialist. This does not follow logically and nor does history support it in the case of the USSR. I would say that the establishment of socialism requires the removal of the capitalist class from power and its replacement by the working class. The working class never achieved power in the USSR, either directly or via democratic delegates or representatives. So, who was is power in the USSR, and who critically therefore controlled the means of production and the output of those means? A newly established clique. Which is why I think the critique of 'state capitalism' is the closest description of the USSR.

[stek]

You haven't said why you think it was socialist.

It was part of an agenda to establish true communism, i.e. true equality amongst the proleteriat in the USSR, with the true removal of serfdom which we know still continued after the establishment is the USSR, and ultimately the demise of the Kulak and a new start, which at the tome and even now, can't and won't work.

Some sort of socialism could work, as has constantly in Scandinavian countries and occasionally in UK and Germany since WW2, but at that time USSR wasn't ready, and neither is it now, it was flawed, it failed, it cost lives and misery, but I still like the idea, gotta be more to like that fukin each over to make a profit?

Really? Am I so naive?

[Old Greg]

USSR was Socialist OG, but that Socialism, which may well have been shrouded as clothed National Socialism, i.e. exactly the same as the fascism they fought against so desperately, was a journey on the road to true communism, which as we know never happened, and was ultimately doomed anyway. Every Soviet I knew said that. AtW might chip in....

I love socialism/communism, but I know it's not viable so long as greed and avarice rule in society, it will never work now. But, I can see a world where all it automated, a job is measure of respect, it's not that far off seeing as we can still prosper and still fund millions of dolies having their tellies with no jobs, sooner or later the realisation will be a job is for really clever people, the rest will just aspire.

A job will become a goal for any artisan, a mark of respect as above, the rest will live quite well off the automated Country-Ltd, that is the Gospel according the stek1961, and I'm not even lying...

You haven't said why you think it was socialist.

[DodgyAgent]

ftfy

[stek]

The USSR was not socialist. HTH

USSR was Socialist OG, but that Socialism, which may well have been shrouded as clothed National Socialism, i.e. exactly the same as the fascism they fought against so desperately, was a journey on the road to true communism, which as we know never happened, and was ultimately doomed anyway. Every Soviet I knew said that. AtW might chip in....

I love socialism/communism, but I know it's not viable so long as greed and avarice rule in society, it will never work now. But, I can see a world where all it automated, a job is measure of respect, it's not that far off seeing as we can still prosper and still fund millions of dolies having their tellies with no jobs, sooner or later the realisation will be a job is for really clever people, the rest will just aspire.

A job will become a goal for any artisan, a mark of respect as above, the rest will live quite well off the automated Country-Ltd, that is the Gospel according the stek1961, and I'm not even lying...

[Mich the Tester]

Thank you for reminding us of why we keep you in luxury.

ftfy

[Old Greg]

All tractors are equal

Except "con" tractors are more equal than others

Thank you for reminding us of why we keep you.

[DodgyAgent]

All tractors are equal

Except "con" tractors are more equal than others

[Old Greg]

Oh OK. So where were the socialist tractor factories?

There weren't any.

[Mich the Tester]

Read: European Commission in the UK – Euromyths and Letters to the Editor » Blog Archive » Free movement and migration within the EU and rights to claim benefits

Just in case: Stop mass immigration from Bulgarian and Romanians in 2014, when EU restrictions on immigration are relaxed. - e-petitions

Here 'e comes with his bloody facts again. Tut tut, huh.

[KentPhilip]

Thirdly, no, there will be no 'regardless of debate'; there will be debate about this and it's only just getting started. Do not expect your ideas about the EU to go unchallenged by others. I don't expect my ideas to go unchallenged either.

No I meant regardless of the debate as to whether the EU was socialist or not...
i.e. even if the EU was completely capitalistic I would still not be in favour of it because it is not needed.
All we need in Europe is an absence of controls. Laisse faire is the way to go.

I welcome debate - even from you Mich

[darmstadt]

Well that is a start I guess. But this would imply that Cameron is offering more benefits that he needs to under european rules. I find that hard to believe - he's a tory! (or he was one)

Read: European Commission in the UK – Euromyths and Letters to the Editor » Blog Archive » Free movement and migration within the EU and rights to claim benefits

Just in case: Stop mass immigration from Bulgarian and Romanians in 2014, when EU restrictions on immigration are relaxed. - e-petitions

Is the UK benefits system more generous than those in other EU countries? The systems are very diverse, so comparisons are difficult.
In terms of total spending on social security per inhabitant, the UK does not rank highest. In the UK the figure for 2010 was nearly 8,000 euros (£6,660; $10,880), the EU statistics agency Eurostat reports. In France and Germany it was nearly 9,000 euros, while in Denmark and the Netherlands it was above 10,000. At the other end of the scale, spending in Bulgaria and Romania was below 2,000 euros.

[Mich the Tester]

The USSR was not socialist. HTH

Oh OK. So where were the socialist tractor factories?

[Old Greg]

Who said that ?

That was me. HTH