Reply to: Do you know someone who's war-chest ran out?

[psychocandy]

There is a difference between never getting the money out of you or not being legally able to. With the first it's a matter of just fighting them tooth and nail and not giving them their money. Probably not a very nice place to be in unless you really don't care about your credit rating and being a director and everything else that legal proceedings ruin for you.

What you probably mean is people giving advice that they cannot come after you personally for LTD company debts which isn't totally true. If HMRC have a feeling you are trading fraudulently or wrongfully trading they can come after you personally. Unfortunately they don't seem to do this very often.

No plans to do so myself LOL.

Its wrong that people get away with this though....

I'm of the mind that if you're too stupid to realise that VAT and/or CT money is not yours then you deserve all you get.

[northernladuk]

Seen a few people give advice on there saying its a ltd company. Sit tight they'll never get the money out of you.

There is a difference between never getting the money out of you or not being legally able to. With the first it's a matter of just fighting them tooth and nail and not giving them their money. Probably not a very nice place to be in unless you really don't care about your credit rating and being a director and everything else that legal proceedings ruin for you.

What you probably mean is people giving advice that they cannot come after you personally for LTD company debts which isn't totally true. If HMRC have a feeling you are trading fraudulently or wrongfully trading they can come after you personally. Unfortunately they don't seem to do this very often.

[psychocandy]

Evidence they do it yet no evidence about who gets caught. I wouldn't assume that people get away with it for one minute. We don't see people getting caught, that is very very different.

For example, we see plenty of people pushing their tax affairs over and above the limit on here, but we don't see anyone posting they got caught or had to pay yet the news says

Small business tax investigations - It may be your turn next! - HW Fisher

But there do seem to be tons of people stupid enough (or clever enough) to just spend the money and then hold up their hands.

Seen a few people give advice on there saying its a ltd company. Sit tight they'll never get the money out of you.

Totally wrong that is mind....

Mind you own dear brother has done something similar in previous years. Slightly different but he was self-employed, spent the lot down the pub, ignored letters. They did finally catch up with him but because he could never pay it back (its was over £20K or so by now), they let him off more than half of it and just left it at letting him pay some back every month.

Of course, my family thought it was wrong of the big bad government to do this to him. Lets just say I'm not popular by pointing out that the greedy twat led the life of riley for years paying tulipe all tax while the rest of us have, so its hardly unfair that hes now got to pay back less than half.

[psychocandy]

Hopefully broadly on-topic...

How long would your war-chest last?
Will it keep you going for 6 months? 12 months?

What amount (in terms of time) would make you feel "safe"?

This time had about 8 months going in - 2 months down (one month was planned though). Would have been happier starting off with 12 months +

To be fair, it would have been longer but my sideline contract ended too at about the same time (bad timing). Not a huge amount but it was some income (although of course I wouldnt have been able to claim JSA then).

[DS23]

2 years. any lower than that and the it's running out.

[evilagent]

Hopefully broadly on-topic...

How long would your war-chest last?
Will it keep you going for 6 months? 12 months?

What amount (in terms of time) would make you feel "safe"?

[northernladuk]

Saying that - take a look at ukbusiness forums some day.

Full of people saying, oh no, I've spent the VAT/CT money and now I'm skint. The upshot is normally, close the company down and keep your head down. People seem to get away with it.

Evidence they do it yet no evidence about who gets caught. I wouldn't assume that people get away with it for one minute. We don't see people getting caught, that is very very different.

For example, we see plenty of people pushing their tax affairs over and above the limit on here, but we don't see anyone posting they got caught or had to pay yet the news says

http://www.hwfisher.co.uk/news-a-eve...your-turn-next

This is evidenced by the fact that additional tax receipts resulting from tax investigations into SMEs, euphemistically referred to as compliance investigations, rocketed by 30% last year from £434 million in 2011-2012 to £565 million in 2012-2013. The increase in diligence by the tax authorities stems from the Chancellor's stated aim of raising far more revenue from the existing business tax structure. The target originally set in the Spending Review conducted soon after the election in 2010 was for a total improvement of £7 billion in actual receipts. - See more at: http://www.hwfisher.co.uk/news-a-eve....nKf5Ntud.dpuf

[psychocandy]

You're unlikely to be able to borrow a lot of money without offering substantial collateral such as a directors guarantee secured against your house.

Saying that - take a look at ukbusiness forums some day.

Full of people saying, oh no, I've spent the VAT/CT money and now I'm skint. The upshot is normally, close the company down and keep your head down. People seem to get away with it.

[psychocandy]

My warchest ran out.

I moved house and had several months off when my first child was born, which left it depleted and then a year later the "crisis " hit and companies simply stopped spending money on the sort of niche projects I usually work on, and my fallback commodity skills were all but useless in a market saturated with people with far more experience in them than I had.

3 months later I was doing the shopping on credit cards, 3 months after that I finally got a gig in Germany, funded the move there and next three months on credit (had to, because it took that long to sort out a German VAT number and get paid again) and I'm still dealing with the fallout, which means I have a fair amount of CC debt I shuffle around on zero percent deals and a roughly equivalent amount of ready cash that should keep me going 4 months or so and growing. Once I have six months worth of cash I will turn to paying the cards off.

I wouldn't say my contracting career has failed, as when you average out over a five or ten year period I've billed amounts that permie management would envy, and I've never been bankrupt, claimed benefits, been unable to pay my bills, been forced to sell any of my collection of random tat or driven a car that wasn't made in Germany. So overall I'd say I'm doing all right, and I've learned a valuable lesson.

I had that when I was permie. Some bad overspending decisions.

A few years contracting sorted most of it out. Like you said, its toss up between paying off the cards and building up a warchest.

[psychocandy]

Stop posting then.

BTW search for Psychocandy - that's what contractors do when they have no money.

Thank you SE. Although you dont have to have zero money to claim JSA of course....

Hey if it makes the warchest last that little bit longer....

[DS23]

everyone's war chest runs out eventually.

[Bunk]

Looks like someone will be taking a little dip in the deep fat fryer if he's not careful.

Stick the heid on 'im!!

[Old Greg]

You're not Scottish are you?

Looks like someone will be taking a little dip in the deep fat fryer if he's not careful.

[administrator]

You're not Scottish are you?

[SueEllen]

How dare he malign the Scots like that. You hold him down, I'll do the kicking.

You Scots.....

Anyway that was an interesting discussion I go away for a day, come back an it's 12 pages long.