Negotiating for Contractors

[theITcoach.biz]

To cut a long story short, it's like buying a house through an estate agent - no transparency- we're fecked unless you can get the CLIENT to confirm the rate you should be getting and unless you can get the AGENT to confirm (how to prove?) the MARGIN they are charging ...

Bob,

Fair point. I have known people get to the truth:

1. Know someone in the purchase order dept.
2. Ask the client. They will sometimes say what is going to the agency.
3. Ask for agency to clarify margin and confirm with client.

I had thought that agencies were bound to reveal their margins these days - but maybe I was dreaming.

Thanks
John

[bobsmithldn]

AND, in my experience, most agents have some dodgy deal with the recruiting manager at the client, so there's no chance ...

[bobsmithldn]

Bob,

Taking part.

John

To cut a long story short, it's like buying a house through an estate agent - no transparency- we're fecked unless you can get the CLIENT to confirm the rate you should be getting and unless you can get the AGENT to confirm (how to prove?) the MARGIN they are charging ...

[theITcoach.biz]

If an agent does not specify a rate band I will ask before I send in my details. I am up front with them and I say that it’s silly to waste time on both sides if we are not talking about realistic rates. I am flexible depending on what the work is but I do not accept lower rates than what the work is worth. In the cases where the client or agent does NOT want to pay a realistic rate invariably you will see that the contractor is not suitable and leaves after a few weeks. How many contracts have I been to where the permie has messed up the project or the previous contractor could not hack it? Loads…

Clog,

Seen that loads of times too. Get someone in at a lower rate to "learn on the job" and it ends up costing them an arm & a leg to fix what was done and start again.

Half the problem seems to me is the client not really knowing what the job is in the first place. I mean, why don't they tell you that for the first two weeks you won't have a desk, an email account, and will have to wade through 12 telephone directory sized specs...because no one has got down to planning what you'll be doing!

Cheers
John

[theITcoach.biz]

Having another offer on the table invariably ends up with me getting a higher rate, cause I've got the leeway to then use that to play them off against each other. Bit wary trying it if there's only one offer on the table and I need a contract in a hurry.

If I'm in a job I'd ask for a raise every 6 months, and expect to get something at least every year (Otherwise I'm taking a cut IMO). How you justify it depends on the particular circumstances, but using market rates going up usually helps (Assuming they are).

Snaw,

Another offer is certainly worth a shot. But it is tricky sussing the lie of the land. Some places take offence at the mere notion that you want to leave. Some suddenly appreciate your value when you say you've got another offer. Depends.

I agree about asking for a raise every extension. Why not? The first shot is usually something about how it's company policy to maintain rates as they are...blah-blah. Rarely as cut & dried as that.

Re: justifying. Market rates is one. Changes in Responsibilities and Knowledge too.

Cheers
John

[theITcoach.biz]

Take part or tout your business?

Bob,

Taking part.

John

[theITcoach.biz]

Presumably to try and stop people nicking it with cut and paste. Not sure why they would want to in all honesty.

Mind you, the name doesnt help. John Waine.

Dave,

So far so good: tulipe name, tulipe webpage.

Cheers
John

[theITcoach.biz]

Maybe I am missing something - but to me the article was common sense and nothing more. I didn't learn anything from it. I reckon 75% of the people who contribute to this board could have written it.

I have to admit to being very very sceptical of the value of any of these "life coaching" things - the article did nothing more than reinforce that belief.

I even took a couple of minutes to look to the website. Why put text in a webpage as an image? Suggest some investment in your web site would be time well spent.

Martin,

You're definately right about the webpage. Pretty crap.

CUK asked me to write something about negotiation - so I did. As you say, I expect most folk on here are well-versed anyway.

I did wonder how much negotiation still goes on with the client. Time was when you could discuss the rate with the client, and then present it to the agent. At my last place, there was in an agency in-house dealing with other agencies, so any discussion of rate went first to the agency, they would speak to client, then ring you back, it was a joke.

Cheers
John

[DaveB]

Maybe I am missing something - but to me the article was common sense and nothing more. I didn't learn anything from it. I reckon 75% of the people who contribute to this board could have written it.

I have to admit to being very very sceptical of the value of any of these "life coaching" things - the article did nothing more than reinforce that belief.

I even took a couple of minutes to look to the website. Why put text in a webpage as an image? Suggest some investment in your web site would be time well spent.

Presumably to try and stop people nicking it with cut and paste. Not sure why they would want to in all honesty.

Mind you, the name doesnt help. John Waine.

[Clog II The Avenger]

If an agent does not specify a rate band I will ask before I send in my details. I am up front with them and I say that it’s silly to waste time on both sides if we are not talking about realistic rates. I am flexible depending on what the work is but I do not accept lower rates than what the work is worth. In the cases where the client or agent does NOT want to pay a realistic rate invariably you will see that the contractor is not suitable and leaves after a few weeks. How many contracts have I been to where the permie has messed up the project or the previous contractor could not hack it? Loads…

[martinb]

Maybe I am missing something - but to me the article was common sense and nothing more. I didn't learn anything from it. I reckon 75% of the people who contribute to this board could have written it.

I have to admit to being very very sceptical of the value of any of these "life coaching" things - the article did nothing more than reinforce that belief.

I even took a couple of minutes to look to the website. Why put text in a webpage as an image? Suggest some investment in your web site would be time well spent.

[snaw]

CUK have invited me to take part in this thread following my article on negotiation on the home page today.

The article is just one view based on my experiences as a contractor over 16 years. Much has changed over the years.

Maybe your experience has been different. What worked and didn't work in your own contract negotiations?

Cheers
John

Having another offer on the table invariably ends up with me getting a higher rate, cause I've got the leeway to then use that to play them off against each other. Bit wary trying it if there's only one offer on the table and I need a contract in a hurry.

If I'm in a job I'd ask for a raise every 6 months, and expect to get something at least every year (Otherwise I'm taking a cut IMO). How you justify it depends on the particular circumstances, but using market rates going up usually helps (Assuming they are).

[bobsmithldn]

Take part or tout your business?


Just to clarify - we asked John to participate and he kindly agreed to answer any questions.
Thanks
CUK

[theITcoach.biz]

CUK have invited me to take part in this thread following my article on negotiation on the home page today.

The article is just one view based on my experiences as a contractor over 16 years. Much has changed over the years.

Maybe your experience has been different. What worked and didn't work in your own contract negotiations?

Cheers
John