Reply to: arab civilization ?

[xoggoth]

Indeed Churchill but not until necessary and I suppose they have a few decades yet. By the time the Saudis have not enough oil left to support their population, it's hard to see how there will be any world economy left for them to sell goods or services to anyway. We are all doomed!

[Mailman]

This is Britain, Xogg, what do you think?

My title deeds tell me that they can knock my house down to extract gravel if they so wish... any coal belongs to the NCB or whatever it's called these days and any oil belongs to whoever has bought the concession I'd guess, which counts me out.

Well if you were in NZ then you would own everything between the top of your property and the centre of the earth...unless of course there was a minerals caveat on your property, in which case everything belongs to the government.

This being England Id assume everything automagically belongs to Fat Tony and his stooges.

Mailman

[Churchill]

So is probably fair enough comment. If your country has a major natural resource what is the point of developing loads of other industries? Not as if they have any aesthetic value.

As it happens I live in the one are of the English mainland that does have comercial oil reserves. If I dig my own well in the garden do I own it or does the sodding government claim it?

If your country has a major national resource that is finite (oil) then of course you diversify!

[xoggoth]

So is probably fair enough comment. If your country has a major natural resource what is the point of developing loads of other industries? Not as if they have any aesthetic value.

As it happens I live in the one are of the English mainland that does have comercial oil reserves. If I dig my own well in the garden do I own it or does the sodding government claim it?

[lilelvis2000]

what did the arabs bring to the world except mayhem and a backward religion ? apparently even the zero and the modern numbers are not from them, but orginate from india.

There are some good looking female news readers on Al Jazeera.

[lilelvis2000]

even their oil, arabs cant extract it without western engineers and technology (altough it is just under the surface). all those infidels (decried by ben Laden & co) are necessary for the followig reasons :

- to protect the kingdoms and their riches, and the army of princes
- for oil exploitation

by the way, do you know the following facts about arab countries :

- non-oil GDP of all arab countries taken together is the same as Finland
- Lybian industrial capacity would not even fill a small english village

so?

[sappatz]

arabs

even their oil, arabs cant extract it without western engineers and technology (altough it is just under the surface). all those infidels (decried by ben Laden & co) are necessary for the followig reasons :

- to protect the kingdoms and their riches, and the army of princes
- for oil exploitation

by the way, do you know the following facts about arab countries :

- non-oil GDP of all arab countries taken together is the same as Finland
- Lybian industrial capacity would not even fill a small english village

[NickIT]

I didn't say anything about who 'invented' universities, only about who gave them to us, since the original question was awhether arab civilisation had given us anything.

Quite.

[expat]

Like I said...I was being simplistic and not looking at the rest of the world (China for example)....

I was concentrating on Europe....that it was only the Muslims who 'invented' Universities....

I didn't say anything about who 'invented' universities, only about who gave them to us, since the original question was awhether arab civilisation had given us anything.

[NickIT]

You're both right/wrong.

Like I said...I was being simplistic and not looking at the rest of the world (China for example)....

I was concentrating on Europe....that it was only the Muslims who 'invented' Universities....

[andy]

I read somehwere that in Nalanda university they had so many books that when muslim invaders burnt them they were burning for 10 days.

[snaw]

If we consider university as a corporation of students, then Plato's Academy is the first historically documented university. The original latin word "universitas", first used at the time of reniewed interested in Classical Greek and Roman tradition, tried to reflect this feature of Academy. If we consider university simply as a higher education institution, then it is Shangyang, which originated before the 21st century BC in China. In the western world, the choice is between Takshashila, Nalanda, Ratnagiri University and Al-Azhar University. The University of Magnaura in Constantinople (now Istanbul, Turkey), re-founded in 849 by the regent Bardas of emperor Michael III, is generally considered to be the first institution of higher learning with the characteristics we associate with the modern University (research and teaching, self-administration, academic independence etc.).

Students at Takshashila University, founded in Taxila (Pakistan) from around the 7th century BC, were given academic titles after graduating from one of its many courses. Nalanda University, founded in Bihar (India) from around the 5th century BC, also gave academic titles to its graduates, while also offering post-graduate courses. A third university whose ruins were only recently excavated was Ratnagiri University in Orissa. Al-Azhar University, founded in Cairo (Egypt) in the 10th century, offered a variety of post-graduate degrees, and is usually regarded as the first full-fledged university.

You're both right/wrong.

[NickIT]

No, I don't think it did. They did invent it, but we didn't take it from them.

I think the original post in question was dealing with the Madrassa's (sp?) where you said European universties 'came from'.

My point is that the Greeks started this process...the Muslims used the concept of centres of learning and helped bring that back into Europe...

(a bit simplistic perhaps on my part but am rushing around like a blue *rsed fly today....)

[expat]

No but the idea of a centre of learning came from them...

No, I don't think it did. They did invent it, but we didn't take it from them.

[NickIT]

What about Socrates and Aristotle? Did European universities develop from them? The might have done but it looks as thought they didn't. The ancient Greeks pre-dated Islamic culture and European universities, but did not directly give rise to either. In any case, at the time when European universities developed, these 2 writers were known to Europeans through the muslim caliphate of Cordoba and its arabic copies of the texts: the first Latin versions of Aristotle were translations from Arabic, not from Greek.

No but the idea of a centre of learning came from them...