Reply to: Snnowden and the breathtaking abuse of liberty

[Sysman]

Well it seems that Germany protesteth too much since they use the data supplied by America.
In other words Germany is as much a police state as anyone else except they're not clever enough to collect the data themselves

Nah, by getting the data from a foreign source, each state can deny that they are spying on their own citizens.

So the Yanks spy on the UK, and the UK spies on the Yanks and they do a swap.

et cetera, et cetera

[cojak]

Once you have that level of information you can control who is in government and what they do, even if you have to suffer reading about SAS fictional life story along the way

I'd imagine that they'd save on performance and storage if they just read the Daily Wail...

<looks hard at vetran>

[amcdonald]

I do not know what gives cause for anyone on CUK to be concerned about all this
.
Let me remind you of what the CUK forum is for and why you are here. It is because


YOU ARE OF NO INTEREST TO ANYONE but yourselv..........

Once you have that level of information you can control who is in government and what they do, even if you have to suffer reading about SAS fictional life story along the way

[Paddy]

Presumably they can break that, if they want to. More worrying is that using something like that will get you onto a higher priority list on the basis you're probably trying to hide something. You probably stand more chance of being anonymous being part of the unencrypted crowd.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the shear scale of data from monitoring all traffic must make the chances of finding a terrorist so insignificant as to make it not worth the effort, compared to say monitoring the communications of a specific person you suspect of being a terrorist and see who they talk to.

As with the Boston bombers. They were followed, their Internet activity monitored and emails intercepted yet it did not prevent the tragedy. Surveillance is not really about terrorists, it is about controlling the population and industrial espionage.

[DodgyAgent]

I do not know what gives cause for anyone on CUK to be concerned about all this
.
Let me remind you of what the CUK forum is for and why you are here. It is because


WE ARE OF NO INTEREST TO ANYONE but ourselv..........

Ahem FTFMe

[DodgyAgent]

I do not know what gives cause for anyone on CUK to be concerned about all this
.
Let me remind you of what the CUK forum is for and why you are here. It is because


YOU ARE OF NO INTEREST TO ANYONE but yourselv..........

[Platypus]

Then get a Swedish VPN. iPredator is the way to go.

Why? I can't imagine that any of my traffic of of interest to anyone

[Alias]

The Matrix is real?

[VectraMan]

Then get a Swedish VPN. iPredator is the way to go.

Presumably they can break that, if they want to. More worrying is that using something like that will get you onto a higher priority list on the basis you're probably trying to hide something. You probably stand more chance of being anonymous being part of the unencrypted crowd.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the shear scale of data from monitoring all traffic must make the chances of finding a terrorist so insignificant as to make it not worth the effort, compared to say monitoring the communications of a specific person you suspect of being a terrorist and see who they talk to.

[Mich the Tester]

FTFY.

Well it seems that Germany protesteth too much since they use the data supplied by America.

And they sell bank data they've bought from thieves.

[doodab]

I'd be more concerned that they can decrypt a lot of encrypted traffic. I wonder if they are?

[sasguru]

Instead what is happening with mass surveillance is citizens are effectively being subject to 'guilty until proven innocent' treatment. This is not that dissimilar to 21st century Germany.
.

FTFY.

Well it seems that Germany protesteth too much since they use the data supplied by America.
In other words Germany is as much a police state as anyone else except they're not clever enough to collect the data themselves

[doodab]

It does make me feel uneasy.

[darmstadt]

The Germans are only pissed off because they've realised that as usual, since Enigma if not before, they're behind on the information/knowledge game.
Personally it doesn't come as any kind of surprise - I'd have been surprised if the US/UK were NOT monitoring all comms.

I think you'll find that the BND have been in cahoots with the NSA for a little while now and like the UK, the politicians are only now finding out what has been going on behind your backs. In fact the Germans have known, albeit not all, about a lot of this stuff for a while. A few years ago the BND wanted the authority to tap into everyones electronic communications here but the government clamped down on it, so instead they use a backdoor with handshakes all around. What is needed now is the Chaos Computer Club to start ******* around (although I think all the good ones are probably retired now!)

About 1.5km from me is an old US airbase which is not fully abandoned by the Americans and is in fact a US staging post for ECHELON (the Dagger Complex) and local people have know about it for ages ECHELON-Station Griesheim bei Darmstadt. Looking at it on Google maps shows lots of little round buildings and we all know what they are.

[amcdonald]

So we have all the trappings of a police state, had two recent PMs with a messiah complex and still we have some elements of a democracy

In that light it's quite remarkable