Reply to: Women in Tech

[SueEllen]

This is why I stick with just "Get your tits out". It is far more PC.

Since most male senior managers don't tend to be fitness fanatics I suggest you don't say that in any office unless you want to be escorted out by security.

Picking on someone because they have man-boobs is harassment.

[SueEllen]

I actually have met 3 women who sued for sex discrimination but only one of them worked in IT. In 2 of their cases the sex discrimination was about about promotion. In the IT case the discrimination was aggressive.

While all the cases had girly calendars, emails with graphic images which you wouldn't send around now and sexist remarks that wasn't why the women went to court. They were use to working in an atmosphere like that and it was their lawyers and others outside their offices who pointed out those actions were sexist.

Funnily enough in the one case that was picked up by the papers that's what they focused on when the main issue was more like the Nurse in the recent RAF case.

[Mich the Tester]

The problem is, that it is slowly becomes part of the societal norm, which then leads on to comments “well she was wearing a low cut top so she was asking for it” in rape cases which IMHO says that we should treat all men as barely controlled potential rapists.

You should be very wary of slippery slope arguments.

[MyUserName]

That's sexist. Some girls like tits too.

"Get your tits out for the lads and dykes" would be far safer.

This is why I stick with just "Get your tits out". It is far more PC.

[Halo Jones]

Daily sexism is rife, & in the majority I believe its “banter” & it’s easier to ignore it than make a comment & be labelled a trouble making feminist nutter.

The problem is, that it is slowly becomes part of the societal norm, which then leads on to comments “well she was wearing a low cut top so she was asking for it” in rape cases which IMHO says that we should treat all men as barely controlled potential rapists.

I don’t see myself as a feminist; I am just a girl in construction doing my job & getting on with it, a lead by example type of attitude. Fortunately it seems that a building site is more equal than most offices.

Although a co-worker was a bit taken aback when he commented that “his girl is getting to the age where she will need the talk about being safe” & I said I take it that you have had the talk with you boy about what is consent. His response basically said boys know better but girls need to be educated... that p1$$ed me off


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[Mich the Tester]

That's sexist. Some girls like tits too.

"Get your tits out for the lads and dykes" would be far safer.

Indeed, much more inclusive; I stand corrected. Ma'am. How about now?

[mudskipper]

"Get your tits out for the lads, ma'am" is surely much better than just plain 'get your tits out for the lads".

That's sexist. Some girls like tits too.

"Get your tits out for the lads and dykes" would be far safer.

[Mich the Tester]

"Get your tits out for the lads, ma'am" is surely much better than just plain 'get your tits out for the lads".

[Pondlife]

"Put the kettle on, mate"
"Yep, but you're a bloke"

As with all things the context is the key, and that can never come across in examples on a forum board. I all all the male colleagues "Boss" and the female ones "Hun", mainly cause I am crap with names and they are permies so I don't really care to remember them. A few times someone has objected and I have adjusted it for future conversations with them. If they had gone to HR and made a formal complaint it would have been massive over reaction, a quite word usually solves most problems

I reckon you're probably on thin ice with this one. I just wouldn't bother with either where a simple Cheers or Ta would do. It easy to be informal without having to speak like Jamie Oliver.

[mudskipper]

Interesting that we both went for "cringeworthy" (I hadn't read your post). That's exactly what most of it is.

[mudskipper]

"Put the kettle on, mate"
"Yep, but you're a bloke"

As with all things the context is the key, and that can never come across in examples on a forum board. I all all the male colleagues "Boss" and the female ones "Hun", mainly cause I am crap with names and they are permies so I don't really care to remember them. A few times someone has objected and I have adjusted it for future conversations with them. If they had gone to HR and made a formal complaint it would have been massive over reaction, a quite word usually solves most problems

FWIW, I wouldn't feel particularly happy being called "Hun", but I wouldn't complain about it. I worked with a guy who called me (and all the other women) "my lovely" - we all thought it was cringeworthy and hated it, but none of us said anything.

In doing that, you're setting yourself up for being complained about - maybe the complainee is oversensitive, but why take the risk? "Boss" and "Hun" have quite different connotations.

(See MP's thread about being called "sweets".)

[TheFaQQer]

I don't know any women who have sued for sexual harrassment, or even made a formal complaint about it.

But if a woman is sexually harrassed, are you suggesting she should put up with it?

I remember someone from Oracle UK making a formal sexual harassment claim. Reading the testimony afterwards was pretty cringeworthy.

It was something like:

Q: Do you think it's inappropriate to have a girly calendar on the wall of your office?
Male Oracle exec accused of harassment: No more so than having a lingerie catalogue on my desk.

Oracle lost.

[SimonMac]

I get what you're saying, but dismissive comments like

"Put the kettle on, love"
"Yep, but you're a bird"

don't really have a 'male' dismissive equivalent.

By shrugging them off (as most of us do) are we giving the message that it's OK, all part of the banter? I doubt most of us would think similar low level racist comments were OK. I guess, in the ideal world, the manager would point out to the offender(s) that such behaviour isn't professional, but I've never seen that happen.

"Put the kettle on, mate"
"Yep, but you're a bloke"

As with all things the context is the key, and that can never come across in examples on a forum board. I all all the male colleagues "Boss" and the female ones "Hun", mainly cause I am crap with names and they are permies so I don't really care to remember them. A few times someone has objected and I have adjusted it for future conversations with them. If they had gone to HR and made a formal complaint it would have been massive over reaction, a quite word usually solves most problems

[MyUserName]

I get what you're saying, but dismissive comments like

"Put the kettle on, love"
"Yep, but you're a bird"

Wow - I work in finance and I would never talk to a woman like that in the office. I would expect to be dragged up to meet HR. I assumed most offices in the UK, at least, were like this?

Although I am actually very careful about what I say at work as I have quite a sarcastic and crude sense of humour so I generally keep my mouth shut.

[mudskipper]

I'm referring to women to have done so in the financial services industry and the "sexual harassment" referred to is the typical blokey behaviour which you will encounter on a daily basis, but some deem this necessary to sue.

If it is actual harassment, then yes, they should put in a formal complaint, but if it is blokey behaviour then no.

I get what you're saying, but dismissive comments like

"Put the kettle on, love"
"Yep, but you're a bird"

don't really have a 'male' dismissive equivalent.

By shrugging them off (as most of us do) are we giving the message that it's OK, all part of the banter? I doubt most of us would think similar low level racist comments were OK. I guess, in the ideal world, the manager would point out to the offender(s) that such behaviour isn't professional, but I've never seen that happen.