Reply to: Middle Lane Smackdown

[MyUserName]

Isn't this sort of thing already being done in France and Germany?

[proggy]

Can't see how they can enforce this, will cause mayhem with people trying to cut into left lane then back out. Easier just to cruise down the middle lane all the way, if someone wants to break the speed limit they can go in the fast lane. In short, good theory but practically not going to happen.

[VectraMan]

The traffic moving at 70 MPH simply cannot move into the left lane without slowing to 56 MPH behind the trucks on their speed limiters. Try it! Drive in the left lane at 70 MPH and see how long it is before you are trying to change lanes. When you do try to change lanes, quite often you will find that two or three vehicles are now slowly overtaking you at 75 MPH and you slow to 56 MPH while they pass. Your speed is up and down like a yo yo, it's stressful, dangerous and it wrecks your fuel economy. At 70 MPH it's much safer to go with the smooth flow of traffic in the middle lane where you have a clear view of the road ahead rather than the back of a lorry being driven by Johnny Foreigner who is watching a DVD rather than looking where he's going.

It's a matter of degree. Clearly pulling over to the left if you're going to have to slow down or pull back out 5 seconds later is silly, but the problem is the middle laners don't pull over even when there's nothing on the inside lane in the next mile, and they use the same "the inside lane is for lorries" excuse to justify it. I'd suggest anyone who has to slow down because of a lorry isn't looking or thinking far enough ahead.

[Wanderer]

So, assuming speed limits aren't really a factor... You, and everyone else, are driving at 85mph, in the third lane. Someone else is driving at 75mph. They have moved to the third lane, as everyone in the middle lane is sitting at 65mph. The refuse to move back over, as they don't want to drop 10mph, so now you, and everyone else in the third lane is forced down to 75mph instead of your preferred speed, with no chance to get past and speed up again.

If there's a gap then of course I would expect them to move from the right lane to the middle lane and let us past. Likewise I always watch my mirrors on the motorway and move out of the right lane if I see someone who wants to overtake.

But if someone is in the right (or middle) lane making progress which is 10 MPH faster than the lane to the left of them (eg, they are overtaking vehicles) then it's pretty arrogant to suggest that they should slow down and move to the left to let other traffic barrel past at 85 MPH. To put it another way, let's imagine you are doing 85 and someone comes up behind you at 100 MPH. Is it reasonable for you to slow from 85 to 65 so you can move over and let them pass or do they just have to accept that with the amount of traffic on the road they simply can't maintain that speed and they will have to wait behind you until it's clear enough for you to move over so they can go past?

It's also easy to look at the traffic and think "Why don't they all move over so I can go blasting past" but the problem is that all the traffic can't reasonably fit into two lanes because we need to maintain a safe following distance. If everyone moved over to the left then there would be more traffic in those lanes so the speed would have to decrease to maintain a safe distance, therefore people will spread out again to overtake. The flows on the motorway find their own happy medium, sometimes the speed is less than we want but mostly that's a function of the amount of traffic on the road rather than the mythical "middle lane hoggers" that people bitterly complain about.

if the motorways weren't so congested that people were able to move back over once they finished overtaking, then suddenly the third lane would be empty for a whole lot more of the time, allowing you to buzz past at 85mph.

Sometimes they are quiet enough and you can do that. But mostly you can't change the laws of physics. A given number of cars can fit in a given road space at a given speed. As the number of cars increases, the speed must decrease to allow them to follow closer.

If there is a free lane to the right. What happens most of the time with reasonably heavy traffic, is the left hand lane is underused because you have the middle lane brigade trundling along in the centre at 70 ish, and a long queue in the outside lane of people wanting to get past, all getting stressed, driving too close, not wanting to let people out etc.

The traffic moving at 70 MPH simply cannot move into the left lane without slowing to 56 MPH behind the trucks on their speed limiters. Try it! Drive in the left lane at 70 MPH and see how long it is before you are trying to change lanes. When you do try to change lanes, quite often you will find that two or three vehicles are now slowly overtaking you at 75 MPH and you slow to 56 MPH while they pass. Your speed is up and down like a yo yo, it's stressful, dangerous and it wrecks your fuel economy. At 70 MPH it's much safer to go with the smooth flow of traffic in the middle lane where you have a clear view of the road ahead rather than the back of a lorry being driven by Johnny Foreigner who is watching a DVD rather than looking where he's going.

[SueEllen]

True... that's because its mostly blokes driving at that time of day

Loads of blokes are middle lane hoggers especially if they notice that you are behind them and female.

Hence I move over to lane 3 put my foot down then move back over and slow down. Half take the hint and move to lane 1, the other half particularly if they over 60 years look really angry that you over took. It's more amusing if you did it at 70.

[Old Greg]

plus lots of 3 lane dual carriageways and on the M3, M4, M25.......

The funniest is when motorways merge and the one you are on ends up joining an existing motorway in the 2nd and 3rd lanes. You always get someone who is too scared to move to the left and sits at 45-50mph clutching the steering wheel with white knuckles.

BTW there are times in the day when I can drive at 80mph+ in lane 1 of the M4, M23, M25, M1 and M3. Yes every now and then I have to move to lane 2 but lots of drivers in the early morning and night seem to have better lane discipline than those that drive the rest of the day.

My missus is from the West of Ireland and the motorway is pretty new there. It's always fun spotting the old farmers who've never driven more than 35 mph before, and aren't going to start now.

[Troll]

but lots of drivers in the early morning and night seem to have better lane discipline than those that drive the rest of the day.

True... that's because its mostly blokes driving at that time of day

[SueEllen]

You do on the M1 between Junction 25 & 41 and esp 25 -> 28 where it's 4 lanes and the middle lane is now lane 3 as they're all sat there.

plus lots of 3 lane dual carriageways and on the M3, M4, M25.......

The funniest is when motorways merge and the one you are on ends up joining an existing motorway in the 2nd and 3rd lanes. You always get someone who is too scared to move to the left and sits at 45-50mph clutching the steering wheel with white knuckles.

BTW there are times in the day when I can drive at 80mph+ in lane 1 of the M4, M23, M25, M1 and M3. Yes every now and then I have to move to lane 2 but lots of drivers in the early morning and night seem to have better lane discipline than those that drive the rest of the day.

[Gibbon]

That's the crux of the matter. You very rarely see people sat in the middle lane on an empty motorway.

You do on the M1 between Junction 25 & 41 and esp 25 -> 28 where it's 4 lanes and the middle lane is now lane 3 as they're all sat there.

[doodab]

if the motorways weren't so congested that people were able to move back over once they finished overtaking

That's the crux of the matter. You very rarely see people sat in the middle lane on an empty motorway. It seems to me to be much like wanderer says, when it's a bit crowded people sit in the middle lane because otherwise you are forced to drive at 56mph. Most of the disruption to the smooth flow of traffic in the middle lane is caused not by the people who sit there but by trucks & other denizens of the inside lane overtaking each other.

[VectraMan]

If I'm doing 70 MPH+ in the middle lane and I come up behind someone I want to pass then I simply move into the third lane and pass them. How bloody difficult is that! It is ME who wants to drive at an illegal speed and overtake so why should other vehicles be forced into a lane of slower traffic while there is a free lane to the right that I can use?

If there is a free lane to the right. What happens most of the time with reasonably heavy traffic, is the left hand lane is underused because you have the middle lane brigade trundling along in the centre at 70 ish, and a long queue in the outside lane of people wanting to get past, all getting stressed, driving too close, not wanting to let people out etc.

Presumably it cost quite a bit extra making our motorways 3 lane rather than 2 lane, and a large part of that is wasted as a result of the middle laners.

[Ticktock]

Left lane 60 MPH or less, middle lane 60-70 MPH, right lane > 70 MPH. If you are in those speed ranges then you are OK to sit in the lane you are in in anything except a completely empty motorway (where it doesn't matter if you sit in the middle lane anyway).

If I'm doing 70 MPH+ in the middle lane and I come up behind someone I want to pass then I simply move into the third lane and pass them. How bloody difficult is that!

So, assuming speed limits aren't really a factor... You, and everyone else, are driving at 85mph, in the third lane. Someone else is driving at 75mph. They have moved to the third lane, as everyone in the middle lane is sitting at 65mph. The refuse to move back over, as they don't want to drop 10mph, so now you, and everyone else in the third lane is forced down to 75mph instead of your preferred speed, with no chance to get past and speed up again.

This is precisely the problem. You have solved nothing. If, as is meant to be the law, everyone was keeping to the left lane except when overtaking, and then the third lane only to overtake slower movers in lane two, and if the motorways weren't so congested that people were able to move back over once they finished overtaking, then suddenly the third lane would be empty for a whole lot more of the time, allowing you to buzz past at 85mph.

[Wanderer]

I never really got it about these "middle lane hoggers". Before people go nuclear on me, hear me out.

My view of a free flowing motorway is that the lanes have minimum speed limits which promote good flow of traffic. Left lane 60 MPH or less, middle lane 60-70 MPH, right lane > 70 MPH. If you are in those speed ranges then you are OK to sit in the lane you are in in anything except a completely empty motorway (where it doesn't matter if you sit in the middle lane anyway).

If I'm doing 70 MPH+ in the middle lane and I come up behind someone I want to pass then I simply move into the third lane and pass them. How bloody difficult is that! It is ME who wants to drive at an illegal speed and overtake so why should other vehicles be forced into a lane of slower traffic while there is a free lane to the right that I can use?

The left lane is where trucks drive slowly and people who are scared of motorways and greenies who like to drive at 55 MPH go. I think some of them shouldn't be on the motorway but they are legally entitled to use the road that they've paid for so we have to tolerate them. Maximum speed in this lane is 60 MPH. You often find people going quite a bit slower than this.

The middle lane is where most people drive because they are doing making good progress at between 60 and 70 MPH maintaining a reasonable following distance and fairly steady speed. If you go into the left lane at 70 MPH+, then within 60 seconds you are changing lanes back to the middle lane only to find that there is a stream of 3 cars overtaking you at 2 MPH faster than you and forcing you to slow down to 56 MPH behind a truck on it's speed limiter and wait for a gap to get back into the lane you want. That's not conducive to making good progress and it's dangerous.

The right lane is for people who want to travel at 70 MPH+ and as we all know this is tolerated in this country. Trying to do that speed in the left lane with merging traffic, trucks stuck doing 56 MPH and people stopped on the hard shoulder is down right dangerous. If you are doing 70MPH+ in this lane then before long you will come up behind some dozy twat who is doing 56 MPH behind a truck, then you pull into the middle lane to pass and suddenly the car in front has the same idea and pulls into your path while doing half your speed.

I've seen kooks doing 70 MPH+ who think it's clever to cross three lanes of motorway zig zagging back and forth. It's stupid and it's not safe. If you are doing well over the speed limit then stay in the fast lane unless there is someone closing in on you in which case you should let them pass when it's safe to move over. If someone flashes you then you have to consider if you should be in a slower lane and politely move over when it's safe to do so. If someone in front is impeding your progress then flash them and they will politely move over and let you past. It's not rocket science.


+ means 70 MPH + 10% + 2 MPH, you know what I mean

[eek]

You could, but technically the police could pull you over for a little chat

I wish they would pull my mother in law over. She is absolutely lethal on a motorway.

[Scrag Meister]

How about we make over (under) taking on the inside legal - it hardly ever stirs the feckers from their slumber

FTFY