Reply to: Infernal council tax bastards

[TheMonkey]

The amount paid for police is separate from main council tax fee and its rarely over £50 per year, so in effect what you wanted is to have 1 call per month for a fiver, not even Alf would do that...

Yeah £5 for them to send a template letter that says "sorry we could not attend your mugging".

[AtW]

Yeah tell me about it. I called the police out no less than 12 times whilst living there and the noise warden 11 times and NOT ONCE did anyone attend all for £1049 a year!

The amount paid for police is separate from main council tax fee and its rarely over £50 per year, so in effect what you wanted is to have 1 call per month for a fiver, not even Alf would do that...

[TheMonkey]

Yeah tell me about it. I called the police out no less than 12 times whilst living there and the noise warden 11 times and NOT ONCE did anyone attend all for £1049 a year! Not only that, our bin was collected once every 2-4 weeks.

London 2012 - ha! Can't even mange the native (or non native in East London) population...

Thanks for all the suggestions

[xoggoth]

They are all bastards. In my crappy little rented flat at contract site I pay nearly £900 pa just for having a tiny sack of rubbish removed. High time they got rid of council tax and started charging for services actually provided.

[Bagpuss]

First of all you have to give the council the opportunity to resolve it. Mention the hierachy.

If they won't remove it, then pay it and get it back via;

http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/

[Lucifer Box]

He should be fine - perhaps may have to pay their costs (50 quid I think) of taking this to court though.

The default marker can't be put on your file until the moment magistrates make decision against you - this is when CCJ (County Court Judgment) may appear on your file, it wont if you pay all dues within 28 days: loss in court is not automatic CCJ on file, only if you dont pay it quickly.

I think his best option now is to go by the book and follow the correct procedure, otherwise he will end up paying their costs. Pay the full amount and then claim a refund.

Your statements as regards default markers are incorrect. Any outfit with whom you miss an agreed payment can apply one to your file. It is not a court matter (believe me, I worked on the Experian data interface and this is a fact) - I can even show you one on my file for a credit card payment that arrived a day late.

[Bagpuss]

Hierachy of liability

If only one person lives in a property they will be the liable person. If more than one person lives there, a system called the hierarchy of liability is used to work out who is the liable person. The person at the top, or nearest to the top, of the hierarchy is the liable person. Two people at the same point of the hierarchy will both be liable.



The hierarchy of liability in England is:


a resident who lives in the property and who owns the freehold
a resident who lives in the property and who has a lease or who is an assured or an assured shorthold tenant
a resident who lives in the property and who is a protected, statutory or a secure tenant
a resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee. This means that they are not a tenant, but have permission to stay there
any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter
an owner of the property who does not live there.




As you won't live there, the landlord is liable.

If they won't accept this take it to a valuation tribunal, under the hierachy of liability they will lose!

[AtW]

He should be fine - perhaps may have to pay their costs (50 quid I think) of taking this to court though.

The default marker can't be put on your file until the moment magistrates make decision against you - this is when CCJ (County Court Judgment) may appear on your file, it wont if you pay all dues within 28 days: loss in court is not automatic CCJ on file, only if you dont pay it quickly.

[Lucifer Box]

Ah, so there is a missed payment. As AtW says, it's frequently standard policy now that if you miss a payment the whole amount falls due immediately.

Your case is now considerably weaker than it was. As the demand for full payment was (presumably) made before you notified them you had vacated, I suspect you will have to pay the full amount and then claim a refund. Also they will have put a default marker on your credit file so your credit rating will be adversely affected.

[AtW]

Council is only entitled to council tax from you up to the point of tenancy agreement stop, since this agreement was not with council its none of their business when you stop it, but you have to pay council tax for all the time.

It is a good idea to pay them for up to the point you left and see if they bother taking it to court - they probably will but you will have very good chance to fight them off: the key is date when tenancy stopped, after that its landlords problem, in fact landlord should have THEMSELVES notified countil that it is landlord who now again responsible for council tax.

[TheMonkey]

Might do that. Only problem is there is one payment outstanding that overlaps the current period which they have lumped into the £1049 charge meaning I either have to pay the £1049 or go through the mill over a missed council tax payment anyway. Utter rapist bastards. I'll shove a cheque in it for slightly above the right amount and invoice them for the left overs later.

It's Waltham Forest District Council. I'm not paying council tax at the new place - it's included in the rent and it's with Barnet Council.

[Lucifer Box]

Oh well, there you have it then. Send them a little package with a copy of your landlord's letter, copies of all the cancellation confirmation letters from the utility companies and copies of your council tax receipts. Tell them you are paid up until the day you vacated, that you will enter into no further correspondence on this point and that if they wish to pursue the matter further they should commence legal proceedings at the county court. Send it recorded delivery and forget all about it.

If they take it further the court would laugh them out of the room.

[AtW]

IANAL, but so long as you have got in writing that your tenancy was terminated, plus supporting evidence that you cancelled utilies, plus witness statements from your current neibours that you live in current place should be sufficient to fight off demand from council: I assume you do pay council tax at new place, is it same council?

It would be unwise to use "or I sue you" approach because council workers wont give a fk, this stupid American approach backfires very often and rightly so.

Talk to council - on the phone first explain situation, then write to them using recorded delivery, then (if they wont buckle) go to court and you should have much better chances than most people who go to magistrates over council tax non-payment: you'd better be paying council tax in your new place though - the date when you started it is likely to be considered a cuf off period by court, or more certainly date on tenancy termination letter: after that its landlord who is responsible not you.

[TheMonkey]

They should not be able to demand full amount, unless you did not pay installment.

Which I did and have the e-capita payment receipt

If you agreed to terminate tenancy mutually then this is it - you are not liable. But of course you did not have it in writing? So long as landlord confirms tenancy was terminated the council cant get you to pay money unless they prove you actually lived there. I presume you also stopped contracts with utilities like water company around the time your contract was terminated? This could be used in court for defence even if landlord denies tenancy expired.

Anyhow go to Citizens Advice Buroau (?) they should help with legal advice.

I've called the landlord. He's not talking to the council because they have ****ed him over on something council tax related but he's dropping me a termination letter in the post but apparently the council won't accept this unless he writes them a letter. Lovely.

Utilities all cancelled successfully! Can't got to CAB - they are never bloody open and never have clue on site.

I'll just write them a letter threatening to sue them. Usually works.

[Lucifer Box]

Well, they're not just going to take your word for it that the lease has been terminated. Without documentary proof they simply won't believe you (and rightly so). If you can't get the landlord to sign something agreeing the lease has been terminated, as far as the council are concerned it hasn't.

I'm sure that when any new tennants (if any) are paying, you will be able to claim a refund, but no doubt that is horrendously inefficient and will take years.

In a nutshell, the onus is on you to prove you're no longer the tenant.