Reply to: Universal credit 'will destroy people'

[Scoobos]

So do we accept then that these people will never work or contribute anything towards their own upkeep?

As horrible as this sounds, yes you do need to accept that people are different , that in any society you are going to get idiots who look to con and screw everything. What I don't want to see is what we are starting to see in America - war veterans, the blind and unemployed people begging. It's that bad in the USA that if you become homeless you're tulipe in everyone's eyes.

I believe you can judge a countries direction by how it tries to minimise this by giving mobility and opportunity.

This is my problem with the UK and US governments current tact - to judge everything by GDP.

I also believe that what makes perfect "business sense" from a GDP perspective doesn't always translate to whats best for the population - or best long term benefit.

For me, saying our industry was so inneffective that we may as well source from overseas cos its cheaper (at the time) is niave. We are now pretty much held to ransom on Coal and Gas , Shipping etc etc - but its not that cost that gets me - its the cost to these towns and cities (yup, mostly in the industrialised north) that 3 or 4 generations of ZERO chance of a job outside of retail and call centres (and there are not enough of them).

Newcastle Upon Tyne for example, is vibrant for a Northern City, yet over 3000 people apply for a single traffic wardens job.

For me, all we are doing is concentrating purely on economic output, saying that creates wealth and jobs - but for who? Those lucky enough to be born or have the mobility to work in the South East?

I understand this is a very 1 sided view, I'm trying to be extreme to get this point across.

Just how much have we spent extra on NHS, Police, Education etc to counter a culture where grandad lost his job he got at 15, illiterate and is sore and angry - then brought up kids who themselves get sore and angry at the lack of opportunity - who then have kids whilst kids.


GDP is not everything - the "average" standard of living is what counts. Right now we have more people below the poverty line than ever and it costs a lot of moolah to maintain this.

But, I also understand I'm a northerner and the right can just blame us all as workshy fops who can't be arsed to move.. Just what would society be like if everyone moved to the South East ? We'd soon see that employment and opportunity isnt quite as good as people think.

If we want to cut the benefit bill I believe we have to present accessible opportunties for manual labourers and the "non office" educated. Running things like manufacturing at a loss, or break even is better than no job at all and 20 years of benefits.

I fully back the idea of totally removing benefits from people who refuse to work though. If an opportunity comes up for a long term unemployed person I would back removal of benefits on lack of application.

[The Spartan]

Are there really people paid weekly anymore? I'm sure I've always been paid monthly (i.e. in Permiedom). My rent is paid monthly, as are all my bills. Surely getting your benefits weekly presents more of a budgeting challenge, not less.

I used to love being paid weekly back when I was a barsteward as pay day was always around the corner I found it a lot easier to manage my money but the temptation to blow it all is huge as you take the attitude well I get paid again next week.

[VectraMan]

Like how a lot of them are moaning because they'll have to budget for the month now. God forbid they ever get a job that pays monthly- theyd be well screwed.

Are there really people paid weekly anymore? I'm sure I've always been paid monthly (i.e. in Permiedom). My rent is paid monthly, as are all my bills. Surely getting your benefits weekly presents more of a budgeting challenge, not less.

[psychocandy]

Like how a lot of them are moaning because they'll have to budget for the month now. God forbid they ever get a job that pays monthly- theyd be well screwed.

Simple answer. Give it to them at the start of the month. If they chose to spend it all on fags, booze, tattoos, bingo or whatever in the first week then starve for the other three. It'll sink in eventually....

[proggy]

Train them how to stack and then traumatize them. Genius.

As long as they unload the pricing gun on leaving the store, all is well.

[doodab]

I think your'e missing the point entirely, none of them will want to be dodging bullets in the desert, they would rather just get a job in Asda stacking shelves.

Train them how to stack and then traumatize them. Genius.

[lukemg]

What Gibbon said....
It's the price of doing business, chuck them enough to stop most of them coming for the rest of us and we can all get on with our lives.
Chap on 5live yesterday - it's madness, I will just blow it on drink, drugs and partyin and won't bovver paying the rent, then I will go 'on the rob' if i'm skint - astonishing but truthful !

Added to this waste of food are people for whom life is a real challenge, don't presume everyone is switched on to basic tasks. They can just about get by if someone puts a roof over and gives them a few quid - by preference weekly. Monthly is going to be a disaster.

Forget the workhouses or military options, will
cost more and won't work.
Coalition making mostly decisions I agree with but this is a shocker...

[proggy]

I thought you were a lefty

Nope, as I have said before, I probably align more with the right on economic and social issues (except thing like abortion and religion)

[doodab]

I thought you were a lefty

You think everyone is a lefty.

[d000hg]

There was a property owning criterion in this country until fairly recently.

It's notable that the country's decline coincided with the introduction of universal suffrage.

People have been saying the country has been declining since it becamea country in the first place. It's a truism that things were better in the past, just as new music is crap.

[Old Hack]

I think your'e missing the point entirely, none of them will want to be dodging bullets in the desert, they would rather just get a job in Asda stacking shelves.

Didn't think I needed to explain that, but I forgot the level of intelligence on here is on the low side.

So what you're assuming, is that there are a surplus of jobs then? No?

[proggy]

Train then how to kill and traumatise them. Genius.

I think your'e missing the point entirely, none of them will want to be dodging bullets in the desert, they would rather just get a job in Asda stacking shelves.

Didn't think I needed to explain that, but I forgot the level of intelligence on here is on the low side.

[DodgyAgent]

Anyone on the Dole for a year is automatically signed up to the Military, even if your 50 you have to go through basic training etc. This would solve many problems in one move. They get put on the front line first rather than the brave ones who choose to join. This would soon get their asses into work.

I thought you were a lefty

[Old Hack]

Anyone on the Dole for a year is automatically signed up to the Military, even if your 50 you have to go through basic training etc. This would solve many problems in one move. They get put on the front line first rather than the brave ones who choose to join. This would soon get their asses into work.

The 'brave ones' who 'chose' to join often didn't have options. If you look where you get most of your infantry/grunts from, you'll find it is mainly from high unemployment areas, who have low intellect/education. The ones with intellect, of sorts, joined as officers, and in less front line positions.

It would never work. Mass desertion, refusals and so on. In the age of forced service, how many would simply jump off high buildings to shag their knees.

[doodab]

Anyone on the Dole for a year is automatically signed up to the Military, even if your 50 you have to go through basic training etc. This would solve many problems in one move. They get put on the front line first rather than the brave ones who choose to join. This would soon get their asses into work.

Train then how to kill and traumatise them. Genius.