Reply to: Slaves

[2uk]

Ok , say we wanna leave before the contract end. Why don’t’ we just execute the substitute right ? We’ve been with the client for some time , we know the ins and outs. We know what kind of skill is needed to do the job and we can find a sub-contractor. ??

[Paddy]

IBM has no more value on your CV these days that PC World. The Big Blue dinosaur is on its last legs and is living off old patents and bought up service contracts.

Many of the people working for IBM are actually staff taken on when buying third party contracts, RSA Insurance for one. Many of these transferred staff are hopeless at their jobs.

There are two main suppliers or human resources, Manpower and CP. CP are in competition with Manpower and therefore they push the point to IBM that they supply temps and CP claims it has many temps on their books. Hence why the CP contract is so rigid.

IBM can't get their head around that the “temps” are really contractors. I did a spell with IBM and they (and I am putting this mildly) were flouting UK laws left right and centre. IBM are a law unto themselves.

[The Farmer]

Whatever happened to Stehuk?

He liked writing the densest prose I've ever seen... never read much of it though.

He didn't like paragraphs either...

Now known as Sasguru

HTH

[M@H]

That was a long paragraph!

This one is shorter

[SallyAnne]

That was a long paragraph!

[M@H]

The "no notice" period "you can't leave" bit is to stop you leaving the job and making the agency look stupid, however you will doubtless find that the company you work for will be happy to entertain an informal negotiation with your line manager with regards to leaving. If the company is happy for you to leave (by negotation) after say 4 weeks of you giving notice then they can instruct the Agency that they no longer need your services therefore the bit on the other side of the contract kicks in and you have achieved what you needed to. In ALL contracts I have had in the last 3 years there has been a "no notice" bit on my side back to the agency (again so I don't make them look stupid to the client) but with an agreed oral contract that I can disucss and agree termination directly with my manager at the actual client company end. The client company won't want you there if you don't want to be, and it is not them putting in the "no notice" clause, there will be enough termination clauses between them and the agency to sink a battleship anyway in their own contractual agreement.

[sasguru]

AtW do you ever stop feeling that your opinions should be imposed by the force of law?

.

You can take the man out of the Soviet Union but you can't etc etc.

[Euro-commuter]

Thus it has always been my policy and always will be when i see imbalanced termination clause's, of not signing. If they want me to "commit" they better be willing to do so to the same degree otherwise i am forced to question their "good faith"

I have never questioned an agent's "good faith" in all my years of contracting.

I have always simply assumed that they don't have any. It has worked for me.

[Euro-commuter]

> I do not expect to have to give them a notice clause that
> enables them to cut short their service. I do on the other hand
> want to be able to chuck them out if they are s***.

So in other words the truth of the matter is that the side with the money will have upper hand in negotiations and I doubt big companies are even keen to "negotiate" terms of the contracts they offer.

My view is that contracts should be even -- perhaps there is a need for a law stating simply that terms like that can't be uneven.

AtW do you ever stop feeling that your opinions should be imposed by the force of law?

Yes the side with the money will have the upper hand in negotiations. Where I come from we don't see that as a lack of regulation, we say that the man who pays the piper calls the tune.

[Ardesco]

to which i would say, that's fine but would you castigate a permanent employee that decides they wish to switch to another role or employee the same way? They, after all, always get a notice period, why should we be different?

Because we aren't permie's, we are a business. You'll be asking for employment rights next.....

Seriously why are you even contracting in the first place, it's people like you who make life difficult for the rest of us.

[Orangutan]

[to which i would say, that's fine but would you castigate a permanent employee that decides they wish to switch to another role or employee the same way? They, after all, always get a notice period, why should we be different?]

um, because we are businesses providing a service ?

[Cowboy Bob]

Interesting topic of conversation, i find myself in a similar predicament. I am now one and a half weeks into a contract that is with computer people

I stopped reading as soon as you mentioned Computer People - personally I wouldn't touch them with yours...

[kazrak]

Similar thread

Interesting topic of conversation, i find myself in a similar predicament. I am now one and a half weeks into a contract that is with computer people, i have only just received the hard copy of the contract and it has the same clauses as mentioned earlier, i.e no termination by me, 7 days by the client and £500 early termination.
I am (i think) about to be offered a very good permanent role that i would be more tham follish to deny and this contract is fairly low paid and only for 3 months. My question is this, if i did not sign the contract, am i entitled to ask for pay for the work i have undertaken, assuming they will not negotiate the terms of the contract to allow me a notice period.
I am aware that their are some people that feel if i agree to a 3 month contract i should just stick to it, to which i would say, that's fine but would you castigate a permanent employee that decides they wish to switch to another role or employee the same way? They, after all, always get a notice period, why should we be different?

Re: views

It is no wonder so much work is pouring out of the Uk and into China and India.

Purely for economic reasons, not for the lack of a servitude mentality!

Re: views

There are an awful lot of egos that do not accept the servitude concept of supply and demand. Fine you are free to negotiate whatever contract you like. However you are not the ones paying the money it is the clients that are paying you. It is no wonder so much work is pouring out of the Uk and into China and India.

but, if they mess you around, then reciprocate - get another job, say you have a one month notice period, and completely @#%$ up the company that is screwing you by simply not working to the best of your abilities

This attitude is called sulking. "messing you around" in who's opinion. This is an entirely subjective concept. If you have a problem then sort iy out. "not working to your best ability" is pathetic sulky behaviour.