Reply to: A sign of the times

[OwlHoot]

During the Black Death so many people died, that wages rose.
My point is that in economic terms everything has a silver lining if you look for it.

Also it pretty much wiped out leprosy, because the price of firewood dropped and wool to make clothes, so it was cheaper to keep warm in winter, and peasants started kipping in their own beds instead of whole families and more snuggling up practically naked in the same bed which, believe it or not, many had done previously.

[eek]

I do where possible, I was speaking in terms of things like oil and gas etc which has to be bought from abroad as we don't have enough of our own to be self sustaining. Say for instance Brent crude is $140 a barrel and the pound is falling against the dollar doesn't that mean we would pay more for the same product?

yes but BP and Shell make bumper profits so it all evens out.

[The Spartan]

So buy British!

Also, as an exporter, the Pound taking a spanking is great for me

I do where possible, I was speaking in terms of things like oil and gas etc which has to be bought from abroad as we don't have enough of our own to be self sustaining. Say for instance Brent crude is $140 a barrel and the pound is falling against the dollar doesn't that mean we would pay more for the same product?

[sasguru]

'Twas the death knell of feudalism.

Aye, and foreshadowed the modern economy ....

[sasguru]

So the statement "even the Black Death couldn't stop economic growth" would be factually incorrect?

Add "long term" to the end of that sentence.

[Troll]

Well if half the population die, it going to be hard to have an overall country-wide economic boom isn't it.

So the statement "even the Black Death couldn't stop economic growth" would be factually incorrect?

[eek]

Well if half the population die, it going to be hard to have an overall country-wide economic boom isn't it.
The people who survived raised their rates though, much to the chagrin of the gentry

WSGS (even though I feel agreeing with him)

[sasguru]

Sounds like an economic boom

Well if half the population die, it going to be hard to have an overall country-wide economic boom isn't it.
The people who survived raised their rates though, much to the chagrin of the gentry

[minestrone]

People will live in them and there will be specialist shops that can be supported.

I think they have to be reconfigured to an extent, it is just that most council areas have no clue what to do, struggling with the easy problems ignoring the tough ones.

[eek]

We are discussing the effect on the UK economy not France

Can you read

Briefly, their time was to come. As demand for food slumped, so too did farm prices (though those of manufactures rose, as craftsmen died). An English chronicler recorded that in the plague year

a horse once worth 40 shillings could be bought for half a mark [one sixth as much], a fat ox for four shillings [say, a third of its earlier value], a cow for one shilling.
But wages did the opposite:

In the autumn, a reaper was not to be hired for less than eightpence [a day, 50-75% up], plus his meals. So crops were often left to rot.
It did not last: the English government swiftly brought in laws to stop the free movement of farm labour and restore pre-plague wage levels, fining employers who paid more. It half-worked. Food prices rose rapidly; in the 1350s grain cost 30% more than before. Farm wages fell, but still stayed far above past levels (unsurprisingly: not just did the attempt to reverse them defy market realities, but the levels fixed had in some places been surpassed years before the plague struck).

Craft wages and prices remained far higher in England than before. That was true in the cities of mainland Europe too; in Florence they had doubled, a contemporary lamented. Siena's city council felt it worth offering tax breaks to attract incomers.

Now unless I'm really confused Siena and Florence are in Italy and every other quote is about England. Where on earth did you see a reference to France?

[Troll]

During the Black Death so many people died, that wages rose.
My point is that in economic terms everything has a silver lining if you look for it.

The medieval authorities did their best to respond in an organised fashion, but the economic disruption was immense. Building work ceased and many mining operations paused.[165] In the short term, efforts were taken by the authorities to control wages and enforce pre-epidemic working conditions. Coming on top of the previous years of famine, however, the longer-term economic implications were profound. In contrast to the previous centuries of rapid growth, the English population would not begin to recover for over a century, despite the many positive reasons for a resurgence. The crisis would dramatically affect English agriculture, wages and prices for the remainder of the medieval period.

Sounds like an economic boom

[Troll]

Depends on the evidence you use. Economic output is supposed to have dipped but wages initially rose until the Government introduced wage controls.



from Millennium issue: The Black Death: Plague and economics | The Economist

We are discussing the effect on the UK economy not France

[sasguru]

Is that just an opinion or backed up by anything?

During the Black Death so many people died, that wages rose.
My point is that in economic terms everything has a silver lining if you look for it.

[eek]

Is that just an opinion or backed up by anything?

Depends on the evidence you use. Economic output is supposed to have dipped but wages initially rose until the Government introduced wage controls.

Briefly, their time was to come. As demand for food slumped, so too did farm prices (though those of manufactures rose, as craftsmen died). An English chronicler recorded that in the plague year

a horse once worth 40 shillings could be bought for half a mark [one sixth as much], a fat ox for four shillings [say, a third of its earlier value], a cow for one shilling.
But wages did the opposite:

In the autumn, a reaper was not to be hired for less than eightpence [a day, 50-75% up], plus his meals. So crops were often left to rot.
It did not last: the English government swiftly brought in laws to stop the free movement of farm labour and restore pre-plague wage levels, fining employers who paid more. It half-worked. Food prices rose rapidly; in the 1350s grain cost 30% more than before. Farm wages fell, but still stayed far above past levels (unsurprisingly: not just did the attempt to reverse them defy market realities, but the levels fixed had in some places been surpassed years before the plague struck).

Craft wages and prices remained far higher in England than before. That was true in the cities of mainland Europe too; in Florence they had doubled, a contemporary lamented. Siena's city council felt it worth offering tax breaks to attract incomers.

from Millennium issue: The Black Death: Plague and economics | The Economist

[Troll]

There may well be some contracations on the way but lets put it into perpsective, even the Black Death couldn't stop economic growth.

Is that just an opinion or backed up by anything?