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Previously on "DOOOOOOOOOOM: Is the UK screwed?"

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  • OwlHoot
    replied
    Originally posted by lilelvis2000 View Post
    Fair point. though I think deflation does apply to certain sectors such as Cars, Houses. In other words larger durable goods which one can usually wait it out before buying. Other stuff you just need no matter the price?
    Absolutely - That's why I was careful to include the words "non-essential" and "discretionary".

    There's a good article here

    This does not change my stance on deflation. I think round II of a major credit crunch is likely. All of the structural problems remain and the global economy is at least as unbalanced as before, possibly more so. On a credit basis (which is what matters to those not retired and struggling on fixed income), I expect the US to dip in and out of deflation over a number of years as did Japan.

    Mike "Mish" Shedlock
    Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
    Read more at Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Hello Ben Bernanke, Meet "Stephanie"
    Also, 5 ways to outlast deflation

    Deflation is a word on the lips of more financial experts these days.

    The term refers to a fall in prices (despite no change in product quality or quantity) and is the opposite of inflation. But like inflation, deflation can have a devastating impact on individual pocketbooks and the broader economy.

    On the surface, deflation sounds great. Most consumers cheer when gas prices fall or housing becomes more affordable.

    But deflation can be too much of a good thing.

    "It would be a wonderful deal, except as prices fall on various things, pretty soon the price that is demanded is not enough to pay workers who build the television sets or whatever it may be. Then they get laid off," says Tony Cherin, professor emeritus of finance at San Diego State University.

    Such job losses make consumers nervous and less likely to spend, deepening the downward trend.

    Most financial experts say the odds of the U.S. entering a serious deflationary spiral are low but not outside the realm of possibility.

    "I think we're flirting with it, and I think there are risks that we have to be careful of," says Stacy Francis, president of Francis Financial Inc., a fee-only financial planning firm in New York.

    There are several steps that consumers can take now to prepare themselves to survive a deflationary cycle. In fact, a little preparation may help you to actually benefit from downward price pressure.

    Following are five tips to help you survive -- and even profit from -- deflation.

    1. Get rid of old and new debt
    In a deflationary economy, dollars are worth more going forward. That's because falling prices allow each dollar to buy more in the future.

    People worried about deflation want to avoid debt because deflation would make paying off a loan even more expensive.

    For example, in a deflationary economy, a computer that sells for $1,000 today might carry a price tag of $990 next year. Or, if you buy a car for $20,000 today, you might be able to buy a better car for $20,000 next year.

    However, while prices in a deflationary economy go down, the amount of your loan does not.

    ...

    5. Look for opportunities
    Consumers who have secure jobs, emergency funds set aside and sound financial plans may find that a deflationary economy is a great place to scoop up bargains.

    Falling prices already are creating opportunities. Some first-time homebuyers are finding homes selling for 25 percent less than sellers were asking a year ago.

    People beginning to build an investment portfolio now have a chance to buy stocks of solid companies at bargain basement prices.

    Deflation also can offer opportunities to save on smaller purchases. For example, travelers may find trips offered at big discounts.

    "During the Great Depression, there were a lot of millionaires created. These were people who took advantage of the opportunities that were in front of them," says Doug Lockwood, a Certified Financial Planner at Cornerstone Wealth Management, a consulting firm in Auburn, Ind.

    By investing in assets when prices are low, consumers can use an episode of deflation as a rare opportunity to build wealth, Lockwood says.

    "Ten years from now, we'll have a large number of people sitting back and saying, 'I wish I would have,' or 'I wish I could have,' and they're going to be talking about right now," he says.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robinho
    replied
    Originally posted by minestrone View Post
    I man I.
    'I' man, 'I'.

    Leave a comment:


  • minestrone
    replied
    Originally posted by Robinho View Post
    If i was wrong 90% of the time people would be able to point out to me why i am wrong on 90% of the occasions.

    The reality is people are only able to do this 0% of the time, though they can throw baseless insults 100% of the time.

    As you have so wonderfully demonstrated.
    I man I.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robinho
    replied
    Originally posted by minestrone View Post
    Robby, every once in a while you make sense but when you scatter gun your thoughts on everything to the internet I suppose you get a few right in the end. 10% maybe.
    If i was wrong 90% of the time people would be able to point out to me why i am wrong on 90% of the occasions.

    The reality is people are only able to do this 0% of the time, though they can throw baseless insults 100% of the time.

    As you have so wonderfully demonstrated.

    Leave a comment:


  • minestrone
    replied
    Robby, every once in a while you make sense but when you scatter gun your thoughts on everything to the internet I suppose you get a few right in the end. 10% maybe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robinho
    replied
    Originally posted by rambaugh View Post
    Bollocks, consumer spending has to be just enough to bring the economy back in to equilibrium.
    That's fine if consumption is derived from money that has been earnt and not borrowed. Consumption spending on borrowed money is leading us down the path that got us here in the first place.

    Originally posted by rambaugh View Post
    Economists and politicians have tools and can use policies to keep the economy stable.
    No they f**king can't

    Politicians only have the power to ruin the economy and create business cycles, as we have just witnessed.

    Originally posted by rambaugh View Post
    Having said that, you do need to apply the right policies in order to maintain an economy and doing so is as much of an art as it is a science. If one had a crystal ball and could see in to the future we would always avoid recessions and bubbles.
    Governments, central banks and fiat currencies CAUSE business cycles and boom/bust, by distorting pricing signals that tell businesses when to invest and when to hold off.

    Politicians love booms because it can keep them in office until the next election.

    Leave a comment:


  • minestrone
    replied
    "consumer confidence", "high street sales"

    Leave a comment:


  • rambaugh
    replied
    Originally posted by Robinho View Post
    You have the idea that all we need to do is start blowing up the bubble again. This is not the case.
    Bollocks, consumer spending has to be just enough to bring the economy back in to equilibrium. Economists and politicians have tools and can use policies to keep the economy stable. Having said that, you do need to apply the right policies in order to maintain an economy and doing so is as much of an art as it is a science. If one had a crystal ball and could see in to the future we would always avoid recessions and bubbles.

    Leave a comment:


  • lilelvis2000
    replied
    Originally posted by Robinho View Post
    I'm sure you can find a video that tells you god created all the animals in his workshop too.

    The deflation spiral theory relies on the assumption that people will stop spending indefinitely because they perceive prices will be lower in the future. This assumption is of course, complete bollocks. Otherwise, people would stop buying many of today's products such as computers.

    The myth was created by Keynesians and governments as an excuse to steal your money via inflation and continue to buy votes with that money.
    Fair point. though I think deflation does apply to certain sectors such as Cars, Houses. In other words larger durable goods which one can usually wait it out before buying. Other stuff you just need no matter the price?

    Leave a comment:


  • lilelvis2000
    replied
    I smell another round of QE!

    Bring on the bond buying by the government's left arm while the right arm sells them. And not to worry...soon China will come knocking for all the remaining gold in our safe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robinho
    replied
    Originally posted by OwlHoot View Post
    Read this tutorial and discussion before sounding off on things about which you evidently know next to nothing
    I'm sure you can find a video that tells you god created all the animals in his workshop too.

    The deflation spiral theory relies on the assumption that people will stop spending indefinitely because they perceive prices will be lower in the future. This assumption is of course, complete bollocks. Otherwise, people would stop buying many of today's products such as computers.

    The myth was created by Keynesians and governments as an excuse to steal your money via inflation and continue to buy votes with that money.

    Leave a comment:


  • OwlHoot
    replied
    Originally posted by Robinho View Post
    No such thing
    Read this tutorial and discussion before sounding off on things about which you evidently know next to nothing

    Leave a comment:


  • Robinho
    replied
    Originally posted by OwlHoot View Post
    Why also would you spend on non-essentials, or discretionary things like moving or redecorating, when the prices of these seem to be creeping down slightly all the time?

    If this attitude takes hold, and people start postponing spending as a result, then it would cause further price drops and so on, and we'd be in a deflationary spiral.
    No such thing

    Leave a comment:


  • minestrone
    replied
    Like most on here I can ride out the storm, rates are good for me and there is still a strong financial sector where I can earn a very decent crust. But...

    ... the country is a mess really, and I don't want to be paying taxes to be spent sorting it out so it looks like we are off to the states next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • OwlHoot
    replied
    Originally posted by rambaugh View Post
    .. I would say most people and companies are cashed up but are too afraid to spend. And, why would you when everything you hear from the media and our politicians are doom and gloom. ...
    Why also would you spend on non-essentials, or discretionary things like moving or redecorating, when the prices of these seem to be creeping down slightly all the time?

    If this attitude takes hold, and people start postponing spending as a result, then it would cause further price drops and so on, and we'd be in a deflationary spiral.

    Leave a comment:

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