Reply to: Religious nutcase doctors refuse abortion to miscarrying woman who then dies

[cailin maith]

they invoked catholic laws to deny the mother a chance to survive.

No, they invoked the law of the land.

There are tulip loads of Catholic 'laws' at home that aren't legally binding.

What would they do if a pregnancy scan resulted in a diagnosis that the baby would be born with severe disabilities ?

Nothing. Again... there is no selective abortion.

BTW, I'm not condoning what they did by any stretch of the imagination.

[fullyautomatix]

Anyway, it could have been much worse, they could have come to the UK and got an Indian doctor.

I'm off to the pub

Fair enough. Indian doctor incompetence is another thread by itself and I have many incidents to talk about. Nothing which resulted in a death of a patient but less serious.

[speling bee]

How do you know?

The OP put a question mark in.

Laughable

[minestrone]

Anyway, it could have been much worse, they could have come to the UK and got an Indian doctor.

I'm off to the pub

[minestrone]

If it was England would they have aborted ?

How do you know?

You don't know anything about the patient, the medical history, the issues and you don't have any formal medical training.

A pissed off person goes and bumps his gums to the press, that gets opinion reported in the rags then you form your opinion of how a doctor should have dealt with a situation.

Laughable.

[fullyautomatix]

The point is that for all we know, it was medically in the woman's best interests for her to be treated as she was, and was entirely in accord with all decent medical practice - and she died anyway.

Equally, for all we know, the baby wasn't going to survive, and if the mother had had an abortion at the point she requested, she'd have been alive and well(ish) today.

Maybe we'll find out after the investigation - though I have my doubts.

Posturing about religion, the Irish and the Irish law being to blame at this point is a bit premature.

If it was England would they have aborted ?

[minestrone]

Posturing about religion, the Irish and the Irish law being to blame at this point is a bit premature.

'xactly.

[NotAllThere]

The point is that for all we know, it was medically in the woman's best interests for her to be treated as she was, and was entirely in accord with all decent medical practice - and she died anyway.

Equally, for all we know, the baby wasn't going to survive, and if the mother had had an abortion at the point she requested, she'd have been alive and well(ish) today.

Maybe we'll find out after the investigation - though I have my doubts.

Posturing about religion, the Irish and the Irish law being to blame at this point is a bit premature.

[fullyautomatix]

Did they? Is that absolutely established?

Is it absolutely clear that if she'd had the abortion, as she requested, she'd be alive today?

Well, I am not medically qualified but if someone miscarries in the early stages of pregnancy, the baby has no chance of survival. Obviously religious nut cases might suggest otherwise just because there was a heartbeat.

Its not clear if she would have survived if an abortion was performed but she would have a chance at least.

What would they do if a pregnancy scan resulted in a diagnosis that the baby would be born with severe disabilities ?

[speling bee]

Did they? Is that absolutely established?

Is it absolutely clear that if she'd had the abortion, as she requested, she'd be alive today?

This misses the point. Outcomes cannot be guaranteed in medicine. The question is, what would have been in the best interest of the mother. A procedure that she requested that would have given her the best chance of survival and also resulted in the termination of the pregancy is the answer. It does sound as if it is still unclear whether she died because the clinical team were following the law, or whether she died because they misinterpreted the law, mis-judged the clinical situation or perhaps refused to intervene because of their own conscience (I do doubt the last).

[NotAllThere]

The doctors knew that the foetus had no hope of surviving.

Did they? Is that absolutely established?

Is it absolutely clear that if she'd had the abortion, as she requested, she'd be alive today?

[fullyautomatix]

They mentioned on the radio the other day that one of the nurses told them "this is a catholic country" as a reason for not doing it... **** religion..

Exactly. That is the main point. The doctors knew that the foetus had no hope of surviving. But since it had a heartbeat they invoked catholic laws to deny the mother a chance to survive. It is of course possible they had no clue what they were doing and did not realise that in doing what they did they actually endangered the life of the mother.

Amazed that NF and Dhoog have popped up and suggested that they were abiding by some law to kill that woman.

[minestrone]

Well until the doctors and nurses are allowed to give their version of events we have a very one sided view of the matter given by a medical lay person.

[teclo]

They mentioned on the radio the other day that one of the nurses told them "this is a catholic country" as a reason for not doing it... **** religion..

[speling bee]

No. But Ireland as a nation has these laws. Laws made by the politicians who were given the power by the people of Ireland.

Yes, because that's exactly how representative democracy works.