Originally posted by Mich the Tester
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Previously on "Is Rugby turning a bit, erm...metrosexual?"
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Originally posted by fckvwls View PostJonah Lomu = 120kg plus, 6'5, 100m in 10.8
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Originally posted by DodgyAgent View PostYou are trying to take yesterdays player and yesterdays training and practice standards and lift them into todays environment. Who is to say that Campese et al would have not started playing and training from age 14 or 15?.
Up to 18 rugby players are not that big nor are they bigger naturally than they were 20 years ago. Players like Ryan lamb, Owen farell and George Ford were skinny teenagers who have bulked up. Campese would have done the same. Campese had acceleration and had a natural ability to pick the right lines and move opponents around - these are qualities that made him stand out, and would enable him to create space and finish off tries in todays contemporary game.
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Also I reckon the excessive gym work / training is actually hampering some players. Look at the wales v argentina game. The welsh players looked proper bulked up, like body-builders, whereas the pumas looked like, well, hairy rugby players. The extra weights sessions did not seem to add any value in the tackling or ability to get over the gain line. In fact the welsh backline looked a bit feeble.
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Postit's common sense that Lomu would not smash guys like Tuilagi,
Alesana Tuilagi = 117 kg, 6'1, Slower than 10.8.
No contest.
and as for Phil Vickery
Jonah Lomu puts Phil Vickery on his arse! - YouTube
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostA few would, but remember; many of today's players are trained professionally from about age 14 or 15, and not 20 or so as in the past. Also, there's a generational size difference that's quite noticeable, especially if you got used to being one of the bigger guys 20 years ago . Lomu is one matter, but Campese; I'm not sure, I don't think defences are fooled so easily now and Campese didn't have extraordinary speed and power to compensate.Yes, both would be good, but I don't think they'd be exceptional now. Sure, if you want to theorize Lomu being even taller, even heavier and even faster then he'd make a huge impact, but that's stretching it a bit too far. Campese would possibly be an outstanding sevens player though, maybe the best of all, where there's less importance attached to sheer strength and more importance attached to handling and agility.
Up to 18 rugby players are not that big nor are they bigger naturally than they were 20 years ago. Players like Ryan lamb, Owen farell and George Ford were skinny teenagers who have bulked up. Campese would have done the same. Campese had acceleration and had a natural ability to pick the right lines and move opponents around - these are qualities that made him stand out, and would enable him to create space and finish off tries in todays contemporary game.
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Originally posted by MyUserName View PostDid I mentioned I was in the same form as Shane Williams at school?
Yes? Well okay, I don't have many claims to fame and that is the best of them.
Not something that people generally care about but it helps in the game of 6 connections.
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Did I mentioned I was in the same form as Shane Williams at school?
Yes? Well okay, I don't have many claims to fame and that is the best of them.
Not something that people generally care about but it helps in the game of 6 connections.
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Originally posted by Pondlife View PostIt's just part of the evolution of the game IMHO. As the forwards have transitioned from being fat knackers to mountains that can move at pace, the back have had to get bigger to compensate. And vicky-vercky , bigger backs mean you need more agile muscle to take them out. All part of being a professional game.
Case in point is that the likes of Shane Williams' days were numbered (again IMVHO).Last edited by Mich the Tester; 13 November 2012, 12:33.
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If anyone is overrated due to poor defence making him look good it's manu tuilagi.
imho.
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Originally posted by fckvwls View PostOfficial RWC 2015 Site - RWC 2015
Interesting reading back on recent history like this. Zinzan Brook recalls having great difficulty tackling Lomu himself and he was by no means small.
They do agree with your point Mich regarding modern training methods etc and that Lomu caught people unprepared in that era.
I still maintain he'd have a huge impact in the modern game due to his size/speed/hand-off and the sheer size of his bloody thighs!
Brooke was brilliant, but not very big; 6'3'' and 16 stone; that's not big at all for a back row forward in first class rugby.
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostOf course I can't prove it, but it's common sense that Lomu would not smash guys like Tuilagi, Tindall, Ellison, SBW or Visser out of the way like he did to Carling and so, simply because those guys are so much more powerful than in the past; he wouldn't be such an exception these days.
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It's just part of the evolution of the game IMHO. As the forwards have transitioned from being fat knackers to mountains that can move at pace, the back have had to get bigger to compensate. And vicky-vercky , bigger backs mean you need more agile muscle to take them out. All part of being a professional game.
Case in point is that the likes of Shane Williams' days were numbered (again IMVHO).
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Originally posted by DodgyAgent View PostYou may be right about lomu not being able to dominate as physically as he did, but he would still be the most formidable wing in the world if he had been playing (and training to todays standards) today.
Likewise Campese. Whilst defences are indeed better organised he would have adapted to todays training standards and would have been one of the best wingers in world rugby.
it is quite ridiculous to say that yesterdays players would not have competed in todays rugby as yesterdays players would have been training according to standards of todays professionals.
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Official RWC 2015 Site - RWC 2015
Interesting reading back on recent history like this. Zinzan Brook recalls having great difficulty tackling Lomu himself and he was by no means small.
They do agree with your point Mich regarding modern training methods etc and that Lomu caught people unprepared in that era.
I still maintain he'd have a huge impact in the modern game due to his size/speed/hand-off and the sheer size of his bloody thighs!
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