Reply to: Is it too late or can something be done?

[AtW]

You're being daft. Why can't a multinational use money it makes in one country to invest in another?

They can invest money after they paid tax on profits - same is for every other business who isn't multinational.

[KentPhilip]

I'm not arguing the general point, but bermuda is NOT wealthy nor tax free.

...

Bermuda Cost of Living Guide

That link's first line says: "The World Bank rates Bermuda as the most affluent country in the world, by far"

And just because a place has a high cost of living does not mean that is not wealthy. As you stated a major part of the high cost of living is its geographical remoteness. By having a low/zero corporation tax in the UK, the country could attract more big business and benefit in the same way as Bermuda, but without the geographical problems.

[VectraMan]

I'd say thats quite different to what we've seen with these big names, its more farming the profit off as investments in foreign arms of the business.

The UK business hires staff in Ireland, fine - but buying a new arm in another country (or pretending to) should require the costs to be appropriated to the new company in that country.

Maybe I'm being daft, but this seems workable.

You're being daft. Why can't a multinational use money it makes in one country to invest in another? You're basically saying a multinational company isn't allowed to operate as one company, which amounts to banning multinational companies.

[Scoobos]

What's profit made in the UK? If a company makes a million pounds worth of sales in the UK, but spends a million pounds on employees' salaries in Ireland, it's made zero profit overall. But you'd still make it pay £300K in UK corporation tax?

I'd say thats quite different to what we've seen with these big names, its more farming the profit off as investments in foreign arms of the business.

The UK business hires staff in Ireland, fine - but buying a new arm in another country (or pretending to) should require the costs to be appropriated to the new company in that country.

Maybe I'm being daft, but this seems workable.

[VectraMan]

I doubt they'd even think of banning multinationals, on the point of abolishing corporation tax what the benefits of this and how would they raise the money they would lose that was previously generated by it?

Well, to pick those tax avoiding contractor scum as an example, they pay 20% CT on company profits, and then the rest of dividends. Dividends are subject to income tax, but at a heavily discounted rate to allow for the tax already paid. Get rid of CT, and tax dividends the same as normal income, and there'd be no loss of revenue and you'd have saved a lot of paperwork and hassle for small business to boot.

[The Spartan]

There's really only two answers: 1. ban multinational companies, or 2. get rid of corporation tax.

I doubt they'd even think of banning multinationals, on the point of abolishing corporation tax what the benefits of this and how would they raise the money they would lose that was previously generated by it?

[VectraMan]

Why can't the answer be that any profit made in the UK (before "self-investment") is subject to corporation tax, the same as the rest of us?

What's profit made in the UK? If a company makes a million pounds worth of sales in the UK, but spends a million pounds on employees' salaries in Ireland, it's made zero profit overall. But you'd still make it pay £300K in UK corporation tax?

[vetran]

Why can't the answer be that any profit made in the UK (before "self-investment") is subject to corporation tax, the same as the rest of us?

How can an independant UK business seriously compete with the likes of Tesco and starbucks if they get 20% extra profit?

+1

[Scoobos]

Why can't the answer be that any profit made in the UK (before "self-investment") is subject to corporation tax, the same as the rest of us?

How can an independant UK business seriously compete with the likes of Tesco and starbucks if they get 20% extra profit?

[VectraMan]

The whole thing is stupid: how can you judge local profit of a company like Starbucks that presumably negotiates its supplies on an international level?

There's really only two answers: 1. ban multinational companies, or 2. get rid of corporation tax.

[The Spartan]

What puzzled me is that the article states that it has the lowest rate of Corporate tax in the G7 surely that's an incentive of sorts, obviously no one likes paying tax.

[Scoobos]

like Bermuda

I'm not arguing the general point, but bermuda is NOT wealthy nor tax free.

The cost of living in bermuda is obscene, because they live on an island 500 miles from anywhere and have no domestic production.

The currency you are paid in is NON TRANSFERABLE anywhere in the world, and must be converted in bermuda at (when I was involved there) 8% interest, then you have the fact that you pay import duty on EVERYTHING you own and sign over ownership to the government.

The racial tensions are high, as bermudans cant get work and are unemployed in massive proportions.

Just because the multinationals use it to funnel their wealth (among the few execs there) doesn't make it wealthy.

More reading (for anyone who finds bermuda by search)

A Limey In Bermuda: Expat Relations
Bermuda Cost of Living Guide

I suspect the other "tax havens" are similar.

[vetran]

UK and Germany agree crackdown on tax loopholes for multinationals | Business | guardian.co.uk

Given the size of the companies involved and the fact they probably have the best tax firms money can buy at their disposal, can the government do anything to ensure they pay an adequate amount of tax?

they can deem profits and then prevent them claiming losses. They can encourage local firms that pay tax wholly in the UK (via tax incentives) to compete.

They are an unruly bunch but I think we can either limit their damage or marginalise them.

[Scoi]

It can be done but the increase tax bill will have to be paid by someone as the companies involved won't want to reduce their profit margins. So the cost of goods will go up to compensate. This may not be a bad thing as it could mean the independant coffee shops get some of the starbucks trade. It will also be a continual fight to find the next tax loophole being used and close each one.

As most of these companies are making use of low tax centres which UK based companies pay to trade the only way to really make a difference is to put a tax on payments leaving the country which makes trading difficult or to increase VAT which effects the small businesses which are paying a much higher rate of tax already.

If it was easy to fix then it would have been sorted out long ago.

[KentPhilip]

Who cares. Companies should not have to pay tax.
The less tax companies pay, the more companies come to the UK. Which means more economic activity, more jobs, and more prosperity.

Look at the tax havens that charge little tax, like Bermuda, the channel islands, and Monaco - see how they are wealthy.