Reply to: Pay your fair share of tax - everyone

[The Spartan]

I'm pleased you didn't take my post as confrontational, as it re-read that way after posting.

Things are too easily taken out of context on forums I tend not to see other's posts as confrontational, South West Wales is great I love the place and things down there are a lot harder for work. I was raised in Cardiff and grew up on a council estate there and it is unbelievable the amount of people claiming for money that should never have seen and oh course they were on the fiddle too. Mind you the valleys are just as bad too

[The Spartan]

Wow yeah I'd say how mental is that, there are some insane mofo's over there. Here have a fully automatic rifle lol WTF!!!

[Taita]

Very Well Said!!!!

Forgot to mention the non paliamentary income enjoyed by MPs for various writing, speaking, etc engagements paid through their limited companies.

[Taita]

So the Government has mandated that anyone freelancing in the public sector and BBC pays their 'fair share' of tax and doesnt use any avoidance mechanisms.

Fair enough but if this 'no avoidance' rule is applicable to small companies and freelancers then why doesnt it apply to larger companies too?

If Vodafone legally but aggressively avoided 5 billion in tax with overseas tax havens then this too is still avoidance.

Surely they CANNOT do work for the public sector either? Its the same thing but bigger.

Surely ANY and every entity working for the public sector must submit its tax and accounting records to prove that it hasnt 'aggressively avoided' tax - and I think this can be taken to mean any artificial transfers of profit to low tax regimes in just the same way as potentially deemed employees artificially pretending to be companies.

Ditto any company or bank that ADVISES people on how to do this - surely they are not fit to do ANY government work either whilst teaching others how to avoid their fair share?

Im sure all the big UK companies will be 100% behind this fair and easy to follow principle.

And finally - surely no one can stand for parliament or the lords whilst also not paying their fair share?

Anyone found to be using tax law to aggressively avoid say, inheritance tax, by use of 'trusts' and other shells should immediately pay their full, fair and maximum share of inheritance tax right now or stand down?

No tax avoidance - or no public sector work.

Its a nice rule and will be so interesting if they actually apply fairly and across the board.

Hilda

Very Well Said!!!!

[Scoobos]

I'm pleased you didn't take my post as confrontational, as it re-read that way after posting.

Wales is screwed, but without farming that can actually make money (rather than be the not for profit orgs that supermarkets seem to have made them) , or manufacturing I can't see much hope for them outside of seasonal tourism.

I know many people in the South West of Wales and they do work when its there, its just it's so seasonal their whole communities become ghost towns in the bleak winters.

Try getting people who've never lived in such areas to understand seems impossible though, its just as simple as "move to London" to them...

But then again, from the people I met in high paying positions in the City, family values, looking after kids and any sort of loyalty are easily bought out by money.

[The Spartan]

Of course if they left there would be more jobless and thus lower tax and NI (both employers and employees) contributions so we need to keep them unfortunately. I think you're right if they generate revenue here then it should be taxed here no passing the sales onto Ireland and the like so that they pay less tax.

Whilst I agree there are probably many who want to work and can't as there no labour market for it I do also believe that there are too many that are content to do nothing and let the state provide for them, then again I'm from Wales and I believe it's a massive problem there.

[Scoobos]

I think the title of the thread says it all really: Pay your fair share of tax - everyone

The fact is some people pay no tax whatsoever, if everyone paid tax then the burden would less on everyone one would hope but the fact is the system is so cushy that there are those that can't be arsed to get off their arses and work and the hardworking are expected to plug the gap.

Whilst I hate people who abuse the system, I'm quite convinced there's more people WANTING to work without a labour market to go into.

Perhaps in the south this is lost though.

[Scoobos]

This debate dies on its arse for me, when you find out just how many tens of BILLIONS are waived by HMRC to the multinationals.

I know people have mentioned vodafone on here, but they are a bit unfairly targetted, since its widespread among many many companies.

They'd never demonise the hand that feeds them though, so why not attack us instead . This whole argument that if the government tries to enforce taxation on multinationals, they'll move overseas is a bit daft IMO. We are underselling ourselves for the sake of dividend returns, to say that there's no prestige of value to doing business in the UK (especially london) is poppycock. IMO.

If they do business here, they should get taxed on the profits they make in the UK.

I read somewhere that the total written off in 2010 equated to 500 quid per head or something stupid like that.

[The Spartan]

I think the title of the thread says it all really: Pay your fair share of tax - everyone

The fact is some people pay no tax whatsoever, if everyone paid tax then the burden would less on everyone one would hope but the fact is the system is so cushy that there are those that can't be arsed to get off their arses and work and the hardworking are expected to plug the gap.

[IR35FanClub]

1. It is in the insurance companys' interest to keep costs down for their customers. So if it is cheaper to operate earlier or take preventative care it will be done.

2. If you are a more productive person, you can afford more expensive healthcare and thus you can get treatment earlier, and you can get back and be productive earlier. Thus the productivity loss is smaller in total than averaging the treatment time for 2 people.

Much like it makes more sense for a contractor on 50 quid an hour to spend 5 pounds on a taxi which takes 5 mins to get to work, but a receptionist earning 5 pounds an hour would be better spending 2 pounds on a bus which takes 15 minutes.

This is very true. I've had several times where I've paid to go to a walk in private doctors instead of waiting for an NHS appointment. Usually something like a knackered back or legs which is almost preventing me from working. What I think is pants, is that the NHS don't give me anything towards it - despite the fact it meant I never showed up on their waiting lists. I don't know what a NHS GP gets if I turn up at their surgery but I bets its £50 or more. And a private appointment comes in somewhere around £100. I recall the tories were thinking about offering something like this. But maybe it got binned due to creating a "two tier" healthcare system. Well excuse me, what's wrong with that? You can have the free NHS and wait, or get the money you would have got in the NHS and add your own and get quicker service. Seems fair. Just like you can go to McDonalds or Jamie's or Raymond Blancs. One size shouldn't fit all. And this is why the government should not have a monopoly on provision of services. Whether that's healthcare, schooling, or even policing.

[IR35FanClub]

Is it just me or has this has got chuff all to do with tax fairness and more to do with appeasing a baying public and media angry that the guy up the street is paying a lower % of tax than them?

Yes, there was media coverage about Vodafone but the average guy on the street can't really understand that, but they can understand their neighbour's brand new BMW.

Thats exactly the problem. Trouble is they are looking at percentages and not £'s. I paid [past tense] enough tax to fund several public sector workers. On a value for money score - do I get more street lighting, medical treatments and police protection than someone who pays one a grand or two in tax? Nope. So they can all kiss my. Does someone who earns £1m need to pay several hundred thousand in taxes? I think the most anyone should pay is £10,000 a year. And people should pay for the services they use. This would see the government reduced to a law making and enforcement division, which is what they used to do. At the moment they do pretty much everything. From child delivery, childcare, schooling, healthcare, etc. You can't get away from the government providing services which you probably didnt want. Arts classes for naughty teenagers. Free public events - which aren't free, they costs hundreds of thousands. Obesity counselling. Fertility treatment to those with no income. The NHS and social security budget could be slashed by 9 10ths if they took a hard line. The way our tax system currently works its a bit like going into a restaurant and ordering a burger, and finding that because you earn more than the bloke who's just ordered a 32 oz sirloin but is unemployed, he gets his for free, and your burger costs £200!

I used past tense as that was until I decided to withdraw my labour from supplying to the government. I'm not sure yet whether I'll carry on contracting as if the gov are taking this attitude, it won't be long till they start saying all companies have to take this approach. Right now I'm redecorating my house, getting up to date with all those little financial jobs that have been left for months and then I'll look into starting a proper business, which is just the same as contracting, but I won't get accused of avoiding tax if I am shipping stock, not just sitting at a desk. Basically its such an ***e ******g ******g ******cks joke, I'm sitting on the bench till I know whats what. Enjoying getting up at 8:30, and getting the paint brushes out.

If I keep enjoying it this much, I'll wait till my savings hit £8k and then wind up the company and sign on. I've paid enough tax over the years to take a break. Do they still pay your mortgage interest? If all the unskilled good for nothing lazy lay abouts have been getting away with this for years, I thought I may as well join them for a bit.

[The Spartan]

I meant real guns, hand guns, machine guns, assault riffles. Like they have in America.

America is a really mixed bag it's really hard to get a licence in some states, I found this out on my trip there earlier in the year

[d000hg]

Way to bail out while you're not too far behind.

What a narrow little world you live in. Anyone of faith is a religious nutter, anyone who doesn't do exactly what you would with their life is a petty waste of space, etc.

[Old Hack]

I meant real guns, hand guns, machine guns, assault riffles. Like they have in America.

I am sure one could get hold of them were you to hold a different license for a certain amount of time.

Join a gun club, that's a way to get small arms.

If you want to, there's always a way.

[escapeUK]

You've not really explained any biological or religious reason why you're better is what I mean. Is this your conscience talking?

Oh you're the religious nutter arent you, sorry I wont waste my breath ahem typing replying to anything else you say. Bye.