Reply to: Visas for europeans

[stevejohnson]

Bulgaria has a high standard of education. HP has moved to Sofia, and Lufthansa has moved aircraft maintenance from China to Sofia. Other attractions for business are low taxes, low business rates and cheap industrial land. Wages are lower but so is the cost of living therefore it is not much advantage for a worker to move to the UK.

All true except that advantages are huge in pay terms for Bulgarians to move anywhere but in Bulgaria . That said Bulgarians seem wary of going abroad as they seem to like stay at home in their culture. Unfortunately the cruel mob governments since 20 years , instantiated by capitalism, have recked the poor country and now is a matter of survival really.

[SueEllen]

Where is Elbonia?

linky

[DodgyAgent]

It's different from yer arse, not that you'd know it.

Bring back old hack

[sasguru]

Where is Elbonia?

It's different from yer arse, not that you'd know it.

[DodgyAgent]

Where is Elbonia?

[vetran]

Well I think it's a bad idea to regulate migration if you're not prepared to regulate trade and business. Personally I'm in favour of as much freedom for business AND migration as possible, but I think the two need to go together. If labour's expensive in the UK, then companies CAN choose to hire cheaper people from Elbonia, but they could also choose to move to Elbonia and exploit people there (while sacking their British workers), especially if you prevent Elbonians leaving and going somewhere better. As it stands now, people who feel they are being exploited or treated like tulip somewhere in Europe can go somewhere else where they'll get a better deal; that applies to you just as much as it applies to Romanians and Bulgarians; following market theory that should discourage poor employers and governments who treat people like tulip, because their people will leave.

yes but would you move to a country recently run by an ex KGB nutter and may well be run by him again?

[Mich the Tester]

unfortunately progress is a series of small steps and concessions. If you wait for perfection nothing gets done.

Well I think it's a bad idea to regulate migration if you're not prepared to regulate trade and business. Personally I'm in favour of as much freedom for business AND migration as possible, but I think the two need to go together. If labour's expensive in the UK, then companies CAN choose to hire cheaper people from Elbonia, but they could also choose to move to Elbonia and exploit people there (while sacking their British workers), especially if you prevent Elbonians leaving and going somewhere better. As it stands now, people who feel they are being exploited or treated like tulip somewhere in Europe can go somewhere else where they'll get a better deal; that applies to you just as much as it applies to Romanians and Bulgarians; following market theory that should discourage poor employers and governments who treat people like tulip, because their people will leave.

[BrilloPad]

I do hope any visa scheme will discriminate against the French.

[vetran]

unfortunately progress is a series of small steps and concessions. If you wait for perfection nothing gets done.

[Mich the Tester]

they can't. that needs to be done.

Yep, that's what YOU are saying, and I agree, but I don't hear Mr Cameron saying that, and all I see is the British government getting in the way of European attempts to do that. After all, you can't seriously suggest that one European country can unilaterally regulate the financial sector and get way with it. Like it or not, it'll need an international approach.

[vetran]

how can they maintain a taboo on re-regulating the financial sector?

they can't. that needs to be done.

[Mich the Tester]

considering most shops, factories,coffee shops and restaurants around London are staffed almost entirely with Eastern Europeans yes.

Its hardly a big issue if you make it a simple Highly Skilled Migrant / work Visa.

Strangely enough every high grade employee we have transferred from places like Switzerland or the USA has had no difficulty getting a visa. If you do that you can also add no recourse to public funds which stops eastern European organised welfare abuse which is becoming common.

...from some huge expensive department of civil servants who deal out visas, along with all the other huge expensive government departments regulating everything, which brings me back to what my point actually was; that conservatives tend to support deregulation and the free market only as long as it's politically expedient to do so. If the free market works so well for other things, why shouldn't it work for labour? If the conservatives now feel that the European labour market needs regulation, how can they maintain a taboo on re-regulating the financial sector?

[vetran]

No, but is the problem of Bulgarians and Romanians bringing cheap labour really big enough to justify hindering businesses who want to bring in highly paid specialists from the richer EU countries like Germany, Holland or France?

considering most shops, factories,coffee shops and restaurants around London are staffed almost entirely with Eastern Europeans yes.

Its hardly a big issue if you make it a simple Highly Skilled Migrant / work Visa.

Strangely enough every high grade employee we have transferred from places like Switzerland or the USA has had no difficulty getting a visa. If you do that you can also add no recourse to public funds which stops eastern European organised welfare abuse which is becoming common.

[Paddy]

No, but is the problem of Bulgarians and Romanians bringing cheap labour really big enough to justify hindering businesses who want to bring in highly paid specialists from the richer EU countries like Germany, Holland or France?

Bulgaria has a high standard of education. HP has moved to Sofia, and Lufthansa has moved aircraft maintenance from China to Sofia. Other attractions for business are low taxes, low business rates and cheap industrial land. Wages are lower but so is the cost of living therefore it is not much advantage for a worker to move to the UK.

[Mich the Tester]

So currently they spend less, therefore their tax burden is less and their cost of living is less. They are cheaper. it may be transitory as Indian and Chinese outsourcing was,its now becoming expensive to hire a Bob but can you wait for two decades until we are cheaper again?

No, but is the problem of Bulgarians and Romanians bringing cheap labour really big enough to justify hindering businesses who want to bring in highly paid specialists from the richer EU countries like Germany, Holland or France?