Reply to: Thursday Puzzle: El Gricero and his assistant the lovely Malc

[original PM]

So you've got it sussed (or googled it)?

actually sussed it

but it had to be something like that becuase logically you cannot have 4 cards and always know the 5th without somehting like that

[MyUserName]

Gave up and googled it as am too busy to spend time on it and too curious to wait until later.

There is no way I would ever have got that - ever.

[Pondlife]

Are there some combinations that cannot be reached or can any 5 cards be represented with this trick?

Any fifth card can be done.

[MyUserName]

Are there some combinations that cannot be reached or can any 5 cards be represented with this trick?

[EternalOptimist]

QH 8C 2C AS

This is tricky- I cannot quite get the number.

Is the last one AD?

I am guessing aces are low - if not I am really stumped!

thats where I went wrong.
show the low card and apply an offset, with 11 possibilities.

In fact, if you choose which card to show, it is possible to reduce the possiblities to 6
and after that an algorithm with 4 cards (or even 3) becomes easy

[Pondlife]

QH 8C 2C AS

This is tricky- I cannot quite get the number.

Is the last one AD?

I am guessing aces are low - if not I am really stumped!

Nope. Read EOs post.

[Pondlife]

mmm ok yes makes sense but i would argue that the fact that the first card you lay out tells the magician the suit of the 5th card is a secret signal.

but very good!

So you've got it sussed (or googled it)?

[MyUserName]

QH 8C 2C AS

This is tricky- I cannot quite get the number.

Is the last one AD?

I am guessing aces are low - if not I am really stumped!

[original PM]

Nope, the statement is correct but yes the order of the cards in the neat little pile is important. Wanna keep going.

mmm ok yes makes sense but i would argue that the fact that the first card you lay out tells the magician the suit of the 5th card is a secret signal.

but very good!

[EternalOptimist]

I have a card trick.
show you an ordinary deck of cards.
put them down on the table
ask you to select a card

ask you to turn the top card.
it will be the one you selected.

works 100% of the time

spooky eh ?

[Doggy Styles]

you are missing the fact that the assistant lays them out.
i.e. there is a method

there is a ravel
then an unravel

Feck. I used to play bridge as a teenager.

[EternalOptimist]

the point i was trying to make was that if I pick 5 cards at random from a pack of 52 I will sometimes pick 4 cards that are the same and then a 5th which is different.

And so therefore there cannot be one formula which will always give the 5th card.

So example 1 5 cards drawn are

2S 3S 4S 5S 8S

assiatance lays down 2S 3S 4S and 5S and using magic fornula I guess 8S

the pack is shuffled and now the 5 cards drawn are

2S 3S 4S 5S QH

Assistant lays down 2S 3S 4S and 5S - the correct answer in this instance would be the QH but how would I know that given that the previous time the correct answer was 8S

Now if you are saying that it is in the way the cards arer placed on the table by the assitant in terms of the order, layout, emphasis on numbers/suits that gives the game away then your statment

"There were no secret signals, special words spoken, or sleight of hand and there are no distinguishing features on the cards." is false.

Please put me out of my misery!

I thought I had it, but I only had the first half.
here is EO first half -


With five cards, 2 of them must be the same suit.
so you hide one of those
the first card you lay out tells the magician the suit.

the numbers on the cards apply an algorithm which is added to the first card to give the number.
(this is where I went a bit wonky, I thought there were 11 targets, Pondy has told me there are less)

[Pondlife]

Now if you are saying that it is in the way the cards arer placed on the table by the assitant in terms of the order, layout, emphasis on numbers/suits that gives the game away then your statment

"There were no secret signals, special words spoken, or sleight of hand and there are no distinguishing features on the cards." is false.

Please put me out of my misery!

Nope, the statement is correct but yes the order of the cards in the neat little pile is important. Wanna keep going.

[original PM]

the point i was trying to make was that if I pick 5 cards at random from a pack of 52 I will sometimes pick 4 cards that are the same and then a 5th which is different.

And so therefore there cannot be one formula which will always give the 5th card.

So example 1 5 cards drawn are

2S 3S 4S 5S 8S

assiatance lays down 2S 3S 4S and 5S and using magic fornula I guess 8S

the pack is shuffled and now the 5 cards drawn are

2S 3S 4S 5S QH

Assistant lays down 2S 3S 4S and 5S - the correct answer in this instance would be the QH but how would I know that given that the previous time the correct answer was 8S

Now if you are saying that it is in the way the cards arer placed on the table by the assitant in terms of the order, layout, emphasis on numbers/suits that gives the game away then your statment

"There were no secret signals, special words spoken, or sleight of hand and there are no distinguishing features on the cards." is false.

Please put me out of my misery!

[EternalOptimist]

I am confused - lets say the 5 cards drawn are

1S 2S 3S 4S and 5S

so apparentrly from the magic formula given any 4 of those 5 you can guess the 5th.

So lets say we do this and leave out the 5S and my magical assiatant manages to guess that given they say 1S 2S 3 S and 4S they manage to say the other card is 5S.

So we all applaud and do the trick again

and the cards drawn are

1S 2S 3S 4S and QH

how can 1 formula give both an answer of 5S which was correct the first time and then QH which is correct a second time.

What am I missing?

you are missing the fact that the assistant lays them out.
i.e. there is a method

there is a ravel
then an unravel