Reply to: Which dev skills have the longest shelf-life?

[Scoobos]

Whatever you are best at, the more niche the better IMHO.

[OwlHoot]

.." .. But to be perfectly honest with you, I haven't really touched it since version 5." Seems that might not be as big a problem as I thought!

Absolutely not and, by coincidence, PHP 5 is also the latest version

(At least I don't think there's a PHP 6 - As for perl, 4 to 5 was the big jump.

Not so keen on PHP, as the rates are rubbish and it isn't as rigorous at checking syntax etc (or wasn't the last time I used it).

[nomadd]

Perl6 was six months away from release back in 1997. I don't think that will ever change (mainly because Perl 5 works)

Funny to read that, as I've just been speaking to a guy I used to work with about a new role. He asks me "Do you have any Perl experience, as there might be some of that besides Java?" I reply, "Well, I did tons of Perl in the past... But to be perfectly honest with you, I haven't really touched it since version 5." Seems that might not be as big a problem as I thought!

[eek]

I've been in constant work with Perl for the past 2+ years as a contractor, although I never know how I always manage to get a gig. Whenever I check jobserve.com/etc, there's hardly any Perl gigs. Maybe I need to look a bit further!!

I've been working with Perl since 1999.

I get you with Perl6 - I don't think it will ever be released.

Perl6 was six months away from release back in 1997. I don't think that will ever change (mainly because Perl 5 works)

[kingcook]

I've been pretty much off the bench continuously since 2002 using perl and more recently python, along with the usual webby stuff and SQL, and there's no sign yet of perl, or even less, python tailing off.

(Ever since I started using perl in 2002, perl 6 has been hovering in the background. But unbelievably I gather it is still nowhere near ready for release. Probably never will be now.)

I've been in constant work with Perl for the past 2+ years as a contractor, although I never know how I always manage to get a gig. Whenever I check jobserve.com/etc, there's hardly any Perl gigs. Maybe I need to look a bit further!!

I've been working with Perl since 1999.

I get you with Perl6 - I don't think it will ever be released.

[louie]

Are we sure about that

mad skillz

[MyUserName]

C++ has kept me going for years. I have smatterings of other skills but this is my main one, along with being able to get along with people and have a laugh.

Lots of large legacy systems that no one want to pay to upgrade.

Also, no one seems to want to do C++ anymore. Everyone is off doing exciting stuff with C# and HTML5 etc so there is not as much competition.

[eek]

louie has got skills

Are we sure about that

[louie]

C#, MVC, T-SQ,L Javascript, and CSS will keep you earning for the next 10 years. Will be boring as hell though.

[expat]

Some of the replies have commented along the lines of: the skills that don't go out of date are the more generic skills such as being able to solve problems, learn new programming languages, adapt to new environments/changing requirements etc. That's all very well but anyone who has experience of trying to get a job in programming/development knows only too well that, rightly or wrongly, the people you have to get past in order to get a job (agents, interviewers etc) don't screen for those qualities - they just want to know whether you have 2 years solid experience of <insert programming language/dev tech here> along with a plethora of other technical buzzwords on your cv. You might be the best programmer in the world, but if your experience is in Java and they are recruiting for C# or C++ then you won't even get to an interview. In fact your cv won't even be put forward.

IMHO that is true, and is a major reason for my great disaffection with IT contracting today. I used to like the fact that you got paid well because you had good skills that were needed. It doesn't seem to be so any more. Perhaps in the days before CUK I just blissfully didn't know what a pile of tulip the agency model was.

[IR35FanClub]

IF you want to stay in continous employment then learn MS/TSQL, Oracle PL/SQL, and unix shell scripting with some bits like awk, perl, python. Those two databases are at the heart of "most" systems [and bymost I mean more than 50%, if not getting closer to 75%, I don't have the numbers] and unix is usually what glues it all together at the back end. On top of those skills you'll pick up different skills at each job, be that a job scheduler or a reference data set up app for the Enterprise suite.

If you go down the route of learning tools - you'll quickly find yourself sidelined unless you picked the right tool/manufacturer. I spent 12 years as a developer, and after starting from scratch 3 times over with a new tool/language decided to move into testing. I've now done 6 years with my combination of database coding, bit a scripting to automate tests and excel to make everything look pretty I've never been out of work. I don't do "front end" testing, i.e clicking on pretty interfaces to see if I can add a new customer or make an order. It's the type of stuff where they have moved from package A to package B, and need to make sure ALL their financial data for the last 20 years has come across - and adds up to the right £values. (No polating floint numbers required). Or checking their new data warehouse has the same number of sales by year, product, area or department as the operational sales database says there was.

The best bit to me is that working as a tester - it's not my fault is the code is carp (not a fish). And if the dealines slips coz I found a load of defect I can say - would you prefer the customers to have found them after it went live. It was working a stint as a post-live support anaylst that got me to move into testing as I was thinking "this code is a pile of utter XXXX" and should have never gone live and can not have been tested or it would have failed. Classic case of coders doing testing to make sure it worked, not testers doing testing to see if it would break.

I did take a look at Java in the early years, but decided to hang on and see if it stuck Glad I didn't take the webdeveloper route - as even though Jave is still here there are so many new bits continuosly it must be pretty hard to stay current. As a tester, all I need to get is a basicunderstanding of how the architecture works and I can start dreaming up tests to make it break. My favourite bit of testing ever was some non-functional testing for a client, where we were pulling power sockets out of £100,000 unix boxes, mid batch run. Plugging the power back in - watching the machine do a "hands off" reboot, start up the middleware services, pick up the batch and complete successfully. Credit to the devs on that one! If I ever find myself running a large IT department I'll be hunting them down on linked in.

[VectraMan]

I would not be at all surprised if some of the higher level languages/dev technoligies are actually written in a lower level language. Isn't Windows itself written in C and C++ ?

Everything's written in C++. Browsers, operating systems, the java runtime, .NET, javascript engines, python, PHP. Everything basically, because it's the only sensible way.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Kknowing NWP2C, a decent rate was about 150 an hour and location Brighton, or somewhere equally as far away from him as necessary

That metric is more like it.

Also, since when did you kknow me?

[OwlHoot]

I've been thinking about my original post a bit more. I think the lower level languages are likely to last longer because they are simpler, more fundamental. Replacing them would be a bit like re-inventing the wheel. ...

Maybe, but they'll be more and more "hidden" inside higher-level languages and interfaces. In other words, the programming market will polarise into a small amount of low-level niche stuff (using C and C++ and suchlike) and higher-level application platforms.

I've been pretty much off the bench continuously since 2002 using perl and more recently python, along with the usual webby stuff and SQL, and there's no sign yet of perl, or even less, python tailing off.

(Ever since I started using perl in 2002, perl 6 has been hovering in the background. But unbelievably I gather it is still nowhere near ready for release. Probably never will be now.)

[aussielong]

Some of the replies have commented along the lines of: the skills that don't go out of date are the more generic skills such as being able to solve problems, learn new programming languages, adapt to new environments/changing requirements etc. That's all very well but anyone who has experience of trying to get a job in programming/development knows only too well that, rightly or wrongly, the people you have to get past in order to get a job (agents, interviewers etc) don't screen for those qualities - they just want to know whether you have 2 years solid experience of <insert programming language/dev tech here> along with a plethora of other technical buzzwords on your cv. You might be the best programmer in the world, but if your experience is in Java and they are recruiting for C# or C++ then you won't even get to an interview. In fact your cv won't even be put forward.

I've been thinking about my original post a bit more. I think the lower level languages are likely to last longer because they are simpler, more fundamental. Replacing them would be a bit like re-inventing the wheel. I'm thinking about languages such as C and C++. I can't see them being replaced any time soon. As for the higher level languages/technologies such as C# and .Net, I could far more easily imagine them being replaced (whatever happend to VB, COM, ActiveX ?). I would not be at all surprised if some of the higher level languages/dev technoligies are actually written in a lower level language. Isn't Windows itself written in C and C++ ?

Cheers,
TTheTTTTT

Maybe I've got a hard fall coming but I've always had work from just core java and c++. I have focused on business knowledge. Been ok so far. You just have to make sure the work you do is relatively hard. If you get stuck on some crap for a few years it's hard to move on. Saying that I do have 1 specialist skill.