Reply to: Experience with SQL Server 2008! Must be 2008!

[Ignis Fatuus]

WNATS

7 is better than Vista, says the tester. (well, better than a kick in the teeth)

I think it's MS's marketing strategy, just as they did with windows 95 and then NT; make a really tulip product and sell it to everyone while keeping a good version on the shelf and then sell that and take the credit for 'a huge improvement'.

From the beginning. Gates pretty well invented the idea of software as a costly shrink-wrapped product. Sold MS BASIC full of bugs, then sold bug fixes as "improved versions" at further cost.

[Ignis Fatuus]

I don't quite understand what it is with UK companies, contractors and HR. Every contract I have had here has not involved anyone from HR, in fact it has not involved anyone apart from people in the area I would be working in. If a project or team is going to need external sources then that is built into the budget by the department head and they are responsible for the hiring and firing, sod all to do with HR. A contractor is seen as if they were just another piece of equipment or software required in the team. I think in nearly every contract I have had I have never, ever interfaced with anyone from the company who is not directly connected with what I am working on. Maybe its just a UK thing (and they say the Germans are bureaucratic!!!)

No, I had that in France once. I just gave HR their form filled in honestly, e.g.
# Where Do You See Yourself in 5 Years? - still contracting using the same skills.
# What Do Want From Your Career? - to continue contracting using the same skills.
etc

The actual PM looked at it and laughed, then apologised for having to go through HR.

[Freamon]

It doesn't matter much anyway unless you're a DBA (the size of the DBAs can get pretty huge)

FTFY

[Mich the Tester]

I don't quite understand what it is with UK companies, contractors and HR. Every contract I have had here has not involved anyone from HR, in fact it has not involved anyone apart from people in the area I would be working in. If a project or team is going to need external sources then that is built into the budget by the department head and they are responsible for the hiring and firing, sod all to do with HR. A contractor is seen as if they were just another piece of equipment or software required in the team. I think in nearly every contract I have had I have never, ever interfaced with anyone from the company who is not directly connected with what I am working on. Maybe its just a UK thing (and they say the Germans are bureaucratic!!!)

Maybe it's Rhineland management that values knowledge of the subject matter and pushes expertise up the hierarchy to facilitate decision making, and has resulted in Germany being the most succesful economy in Europe since the war and almost the only country in Europe that isn't bust and on its arse; just try applying for a senior job at BMW, Daimler Benz, Siemens, Bosch, AEG or VW Group with a degree in 'Communication Studies', 'Human Resources Management' or 'International Marketing Cackness'; they won't even interview you without MEng, MSc or relevant professional qualifications. HR are there to manage permie employment relationships, not to do purchasing for technical projects because they wouldn't know where to start, in the same way as engineers aren't sent to negotiate with trade unions because they wouldn't know where to start.

Here in NL we're in between the two and sometimes have the worst of both worlds; in the government and the old state owned corporates everything has to go through the 'process' according to the 'protocol', HR numpties, secretaries, receptionists all give their opinions until the best people are eliminated and the boss man has to either approve or start the whole procedure all over again to find a decent contractor. Occasionally though, Dutch companies have the best of both worlds; flat informal structures, decisions taken by experts and a lack of bureaucratic cack; those tend to be the succesful companies, unsurprisingly.

[Gentile]

I don't quite understand what it is with UK companies, contractors and HR. Every contract I have had here has not involved anyone from HR, in fact it has not involved anyone apart from people in the area I would be working in. If a project or team is going to need external sources then that is built into the budget by the department head and they are responsible for the hiring and firing, sod all to do with HR. A contractor is seen as if they were just another piece of equipment or software required in the team. I think in nearly every contract I have had I have never, ever interfaced with anyone from the company who is not directly connected with what I am working on. Maybe its just a UK thing (and they say the Germans are bureaucratic!!!)

That sounds pretty much like my experience of the UK.

[Gentile]

HR numpty; 'I'm looking for a tester and I see SQL Server experience in your CV, but it's very important to have experience with SQL Server 2008! Do you have that?

Could have been worse. Could have been SQL Server 2010 they asked for. I hate it when I have to pretend technologies exist to get a gig.

[darmstadt]

I don't quite understand what it is with UK companies, contractors and HR. Every contract I have had here has not involved anyone from HR, in fact it has not involved anyone apart from people in the area I would be working in. If a project or team is going to need external sources then that is built into the budget by the department head and they are responsible for the hiring and firing, sod all to do with HR. A contractor is seen as if they were just another piece of equipment or software required in the team. I think in nearly every contract I have had I have never, ever interfaced with anyone from the company who is not directly connected with what I am working on. Maybe its just a UK thing (and they say the Germans are bureaucratic!!!)

[nomadd]

so what benefit will I see if I upgrade ?

Sell it to me

Lazy b'stard: Explore Windows 7 features - Microsoft Windows

[FiveTimes]

No, really. It isn't.

so what benefit will I see if I upgrade ?

Sell it to me

[nomadd]

Because HR departments are even worse.

They ask the exact same misguided questions. However, as their income isn't based upon making sure the people that can do the job get through they tend to err more on rejecting everyone they're not sure about than on putting through a few duffers along with the doers. That leads to a lot of good people getting rejected and a lot of critical roles remaining unfilled. That's where agents come in.

Interview for me last week. Took three weeks to arrange, as I had to be "interviewed by HR first, on-site" and not the PM of the project. Spent three weeks trying to explain what a 'contractor' was and why I wasn't prepared to come on-site for an interview with their HR before I'd even had a chance to discuss the project.

Anyway, interview - by telephone, as I'd insisted, and that wasted another week in the process - with the PM and it turns out "You must arrive at 9:00 a.m. and you leave at 6:00 p.m. You will be working across a number of projects, varying day-by-day depending upon what the business needs from you." And so on... Again, I tried to explain what a contractor was and what the implications for IR35 were with this kind of "control." PM informed he could do nothing about it as HR are in charge of all the permies and contractors and handle them the same way. We decided to go are separate ways at that point.

[tractor]

...

But they are all that stupidxxxxxx tech-unaware.

My partner used to work in a specific area of tax in the City many years ago, and she insists that all the recruiters were knowledgeable in the field, not just in selling double glazing. As she said, we just wouldn't talk to a recruiter who didn't know the work that we did. Why do you? she continues.

Ah well, I say, because they've got the jobs. But why would the clients give the jobs to recruiters who don't know tulip, she asks?

Anyone got a point of view on that one?

The model removes the bottom two or three layers of HR from their bottom line AND maintains the required distance from us in order to not be stuffed with employee claims/taxation issues etc.

It's very much the same in property FM and other non LoB segments.

[Gentile]

But they are all that stupidxxxxxx tech-unaware.

My partner used to work in a specific area of tax in the City many years ago, and she insists that all the recruiters were knowledgeable in the field, not just in selling double glazing. As she said, we just wouldn't talk to a recruiter who didn't know the work that we did. Why do you? she continues.

Ah well, I say, because they've got the jobs. But why would the clients give the jobs to recruiters who don't know tulip, she asks?

Anyone got a point of view on that one?

Because HR departments are even worse.

They ask the exact same misguided questions. However, as their income isn't based upon making sure the people that can do the job get through they tend to err more on rejecting everyone they're not sure about than on putting through a few duffers along with the doers. That leads to a lot of good people getting rejected and a lot of critical roles remaining unfilled. That's where agents come in.

[Robinho]

Recruitment is a pretty simple job at the base level. You just match CVs with requirements. Even if the person doesn't know the field it is seemingly effective as people still use them.

[Ignis Fatuus]

....She agreed to forward the CV, but I don't hold out much hope with someone that technology unaware presenting it.

But they are all that stupidxxxxxx tech-unaware.

My partner used to work in a specific area of tax in the City many years ago, and she insists that all the recruiters were knowledgeable in the field, not just in selling double glazing. As she said, we just wouldn't talk to a recruiter who didn't know the work that we did. Why do you? she continues.

Ah well, I say, because they've got the jobs. But why would the clients give the jobs to recruiters who don't know tulip, she asks?

Anyone got a point of view on that one?

[Ignis Fatuus]

It´s a bad sign, it means that the market is so dire that they can reduce the hundreds of CV´s by being even more specific than they need to be, think of it as "because they can", Reminds of an answer some rock star gave about why do rock stars go out with gorgeous models, "because we can".

and unfortunately they are able to filter by exact version even if irrelevant, whereas they are unable to filter by being good at your job, so they don't bother with that.