Montrez moi l'argent rosbiff

[Old Hack]

That's what I heard, but found it hard to believe. Apparently most French much prefer to live literally on top of each other packed into appartementes, or however one spells it, in crowded cities. Barking mad the lot of 'em ..

What the main difference, for me, is that the French don't renovate homes, they can't stand the idea of old, and like new shiny white square lots of glass buildings. If you go to a town, you will see so many old houses, some 2-300 years old rotting, when on the outskirts of town you will see heaps, and heaps of brand spanking bugalows.

In the non coastal areas, places like Auvergne, Limousin, Vienne, you can pick up an acre of land, and 4 bed detached for less than 80k, that just need some love, a new kitchen and bathroom. Look at a new bunglow in these areas and they're 200k.

I really don't understand it. If you are buying, too, don't buy off a French person, as they dont budge an inch, the price they have been told the hosue is worth, is what they will expect. However, ex pats understand that the price will reflect how quickly they want to sell, and how desperate they are. It's not uncommon for houses to take 5 years to sell in France, in the rural areas.

We paid around €150k all told, for a 4 bed with 4 acres, a car was thrown in, and it's about 45 mins to the coast. It started on the market 3 years before we bought it at about 280k, and the owner was begging us to buy it in the end. He's now back in the UK and couldn't be happier.

Wait 12 months and watch the prices in South West France plummet if he gets his way.

[OwlHoot]

.. You can't give rural French property away at the moment, as the French don't want it, ...

That's what I heard, but found it hard to believe. Apparently most French much prefer to live literally on top of each other packed into appartementes, or however one spells it, in crowded cities. Barking mad the lot of 'em ..

[Old Hack]

I'm sure that's my opinion, yes.

You should get out and about love.

[Gentile]

Are your sure about that?

I'm sure that's my opinion, yes.

[Old Hack]

Whatever the legalities may be, I must say I sympathise with the French here. If you're not going to be part and parcel of a given society, then why should you enjoy its benefits at the same rate of tax as people that invest their whole lives in the country? There's been a few eyebrows raised recently about the number of French ex pats living in London, but at least they live and pay taxes here full time.

Again, like the other thread, probably best arm yourself with soem information before you comment. We do pay taxes, and also, as most ex-pats live in rurally, we support local businesses. If you did what a lot of us have done, you'd realise the French love us as, generally, we're francophiles, can speak French and are part of the community when we are there. Those that let theirs out, already pay high taxes. Those that visit, even without owning, also, are normally francophiles who put a lot of money into the local communities.

Speak to a French person about the rosbiffs and outside of a few 'genial' nationalists, we are fairly universally loved.

Now ask a Spaniard/Italian/Portuguese what they think of the people that pile over into their hotels...

Edit: If you killed off ownership aspirations in rural france, you would kill off rural france altogether. If you have been, you would udnerstand most young adults fire off to the local cities and towns, rarely to return. The English/Germans/Dutch who purchase out there are keeping the rural areas of france alive. Go over there and speak to them before you chuck in the ill informed comments; this isn't like cornwall and devon, where local communties are being priced out by second home buyers; these places would die without us. We know it, they know it.

[eek]

Whatever the legalities may be, I must say I sympathise with the French here. If you're not going to be part and parcel of a given society, then why should you enjoy its benefits at the same rate of tax as people that invest their whole lives in the country? There's been a few eyebrows raised recently about the number of French ex pats living in London, but at least they live and pay taxes here full time.

Are your sure about that?

[Gentile]

Whatever the legalities may be, I must say I sympathise with the French here. If you're not going to be part and parcel of a given society, then why should you enjoy its benefits at the same rate of tax as people that invest their whole lives in the country? There's been a few eyebrows raised recently about the number of French ex pats living in London, but at least they live and pay taxes here full time.

[sunnysan]

Nice reply

There's nothing new here really. I also expected it to happen. If you buy through an SCI (Societe Civile Immobiliere), you can immunise yourself against the CGT and you don't make enough money out of it to make renting worthwhile, if you bag the summer months anyway.

If you are interested in buying a French home, so it through your Ltd. Set up an SCI and make it a partner in the Ltd. You can then give it dividends, tax free, and purchase the house through your company, effectively saving you 20%. You just can't let it out if you do, or you can, but it has to be unfirnished.

The only bit about this, if they get it through, is it will make buying one even cheaper. You can't give rural French property away at the moment, as the French don't want it, and the English people who are inevitably selling it, are desperate to sell.

Tax fonciere and d'habitation is just like council tax effectively. Not as much though, normally, depends how far you are from services etc and whether you are on mains sewer etc. This will not change regardless.

Concise, informative and beneficial reply.... very unusual for this forum

[Old Hack]

There's nothing new here really. I also expected it to happen. If you buy through an SCI (Societe Civile Immobiliere), you can immunise yourself against the CGT and you don't make enough money out of it to make renting worthwhile, if you bag the summer months anyway.

If you are interested in buying a French home, so it through your Ltd. Set up an SCI and make it a partner in the Ltd. You can then give it dividends, tax free, and purchase the house through your company, effectively saving you 20%. You just can't let it out if you do, or you can, but it has to be unfirnished.

The only bit about this, if they get it through, is it will make buying one even cheaper. You can't give rural French property away at the moment, as the French don't want it, and the English people who are inevitably selling it, are desperate to sell.

Tax fonciere and d'habitation is just like council tax effectively. Not as much though, normally, depends how far you are from services etc and whether you are on mains sewer etc. This will not change regardless.

[Mich the Tester]

Holiday home owners already pay two other taxes to the French government: the taxe fonciere, which is paid by the house owner and the taxe d'habitation, which is paid by those who live in it.

My guess is that if this new tax is challenged in European courts on the grounds of discrimination, the two existing taxes will be stuffed as well. Idiotic proposal.

[sunnysan]

And so it begins(Or carries on) .....


Francois Hollande announces French tax grab on holiday homes - Telegraph


Approximately 200,000 Britons own second homes in areas such as the Dordogne and other parts of France, particularly those serviced by budget airlines.

Now, however, holiday home owners find themselves in the sights of President François Hollande as he seeks to tax the better-off to reduce France's large budget deficit.

On Wednesday (July 4th), the French government announced it was to increase taxes on foreign-owned second homes. Tax on rental income would rise from 20 per cent to 35.5 per cent, and capital gains tax on property sales would rise from 19 per cent to 34.5 per cent. The extra in each case is being labelled a "social charge".

A Treasury source said on Wednesday night: "We will need to study the details. But we will of course challenge any proposal which breaches European single market laws and anti-discrimination rules."

It is understood that President Sarkozy proposed a similar tax increase last year which was also challenged by the British Government.



The rise in tax on rental income will be retrospective, from Jan 1 this year. The increase in capital gains tax applies from the end of this month, meaning property owners will have little time to escape the increased tax by selling their homes.
David Cameron infuriated the French last month by promising Britain would "roll out the red carpet" to wealthy French citizens and companies who wanted to emigrate and pay their taxes in Britain.
Holiday home owners already pay two other taxes to the French government: the taxe fonciere, which is paid by the house owner and the taxe d'habitation, which is paid by those who live in it.