Reply to: Jimmy Carr Tax Avoidance

[Scoobos]

Spod you are right, my wife told me so and I agree. Its legal it goes.

[Old Greg]

Why are people worked up about the hypocrisy? It's legal.

[AtW]

Unlike Russia one is innocent until proven guilty. It is certainly not for a sanctimonious nutter like you to decide.

Not even in Soviet Union prosecution relied on self-incrimination - I thought about it when I had to fill in details about who was driving my car at the time of alleged speeding

I hope HMRC will fook him over for all he's got - taxes are not a laughing matter.

HTH

[DodgyAgent]

How do you know it's not illega? It has not been ruled by court as illegal, however that might not even be necessary since HMRC can fall back to "this scheme does not work" and instead of going for tax evasion (which would require illegality) they'll just go for unpaid tax + penalties enough to wipe the smile off his face forever.

AFAIK if he is not paying market interest rate on loan every year (7-20% pa) then it's a sham loan in my view and should be treated as such.

Unlike Russia one is innocent until proven guilty. It is certainly not for a sanctimonious nutter like you to decide.

[AtW]

By all means. However currently he is doing nothing illegal. Looks like we're in agreement.

How do you know it's not illega? It has not been ruled by court as illegal, however that might not even be necessary since HMRC can fall back to "this scheme does not work" and instead of going for tax evasion (which would require illegality) they'll just go for unpaid tax + penalties enough to wipe the smile off his face forever.

AFAIK if he is not paying market interest rate on loan every year (7-20% pa) then it's a sham loan in my view and should be treated as such.

[Scoobos]

it's not distasteful, its fact.

Just because something is legal in a country does not make it fine; that is the point I'm trying to make.

The same way you are saying that because its legal, its avoidance not evasion.. I'm not sure with large scale specialist schemes like this that you can , hand on heart, say you think its playing by the rules or finding a little loophole.

[SupremeSpod]

Whatever Spod... Tax evasion is illegal.

Saying that something that is so clearly wrong and deliberate is fine because it's not illegal, is saying that Gary Glitter is ok, because what he did was not illegal in Laos, or whatever country he uses that doesnt have a law.

As much as I like the guy, and also resent HMRC wasting our billions, there's not a lot of justifying how its "ok" for someone so vocal against the big tax dodgers to do it himself.

Come on....

Tax avoidance is not illegal. Use whatever distasteful analogies you wish but don't forget the difference between avoidance and evasion.

[Scoobos]

I suspect the damage to his career may cause him to lose more money than the tax he has saved.

I hope so, but it'll all be forgotten in a couple of months.

[Scoobos]

Whatever Spod... Tax evasion is illegal.

Saying that something that is so clearly wrong and deliberate is fine because it's not illegal, is saying that Gary Glitter is ok, because what he did was not illegal in Laos, or whatever country he uses that doesnt have a law.

As much as I like the guy, and also resent HMRC wasting our billions, there's not a lot of justifying how its "ok" for someone so vocal against the big tax dodgers to do it himself.

Come on....

[swamp]

I suspect the damage to his career may cause him to lose more money than the tax he has saved.

[SupremeSpod]

Why do you care if I think it's illegal? It won't affect that case - HMRC will decide on it and little Jimmy might spend next 10 years fighting it up till the point Supreme Court tells him to fook right off. I am for one will have a good laugh all the way

By all means. However currently he is doing nothing illegal. Looks like we're in agreement.

[AtW]

Answer the question. Is the scheme currently as of 19/06/2012 illegal? Yes or No?

Why do you care if I think it's illegal? It won't affect that case - HMRC will decide on it and little Jimmy might spend next 10 years fighting it up till the point Supreme Court tells him to fook right off. I am for one will have a good laugh all the way

[SupremeSpod]

Only court can decide that.

In my view (and that's my view) any sham transaction with loans that are not really loans is nothing but tax evasion, but I repeat it's my personal view.

Sasdly HMRC does not like going after tax evasion because the odds are stacked in favour of defendant but I think they should be doing it more often: not just after people who benefit from it directly but also after those who create such "schemes".

Answer the question. Is the scheme currently as of 19/06/2012 illegal? Yes or No?

[AtW]

By the way in those loans, do they charge market level of interest at all? Surely if loan got 0% interest then it's a sham, not a loan?

[AtW]

Currently it is not illegal. True or False?

Only court can decide that.

In my view (and that's my view) any sham transaction with loans that are not really loans is nothing but tax evasion, but I repeat it's my personal view.

Sasdly HMRC does not like going after tax evasion because the odds are stacked in favour of defendant but I think they should be doing it more often: not just after people who benefit from it directly but also after those who create such "schemes".