Reply to: Latest JobServe Scam

[bobspud]

Yes, it's tempting to do that. Or to change the e-mail address to JS's own complaints address, so they can deal with the vast quantities of spam their actions generate.

The thing is, I have contacted people that I was interested in doing business with via JobServe in the past. Since the unsolicited profiles that JobServe now creates are available to anyone using JobServe (including people you have actually specifically chosen to send your CV to), it makes it inadvisable to change your details to an abusive message directed at others.

What I'll be doing in future, if I see a contract listed on JS that I want to apply for, is I'll just e-mail my CV directly to the agent concerned. They always list their name in their advert, and the contracts I'm typically interested in are usually listed by someone I've at least spoken with before. And even where I've not spoken with them, it's easy to find out agents' e-mail addresses: they don't exactly keep them secret. In my e-mail, I'll just provide a hyperlink to the advert I'm responding to, and in that way take JobServe out of the picture. I'm sure there's a small percentage of agents that don't respond to e-mail, because they're too busy doing keyword searches and sending hundreds of unsolicited emails per hour, but typically that's not the type of individual I deal with anyway.

I have really tuned in to my contacts in the last year, and keep a good presence on LinkedIn. Most of the leads I get are not a mile short of the mark, and even if they are a bit wooly, I still take a minute to send an email correcting the record attaching a CV and thanking the people for the thought.
I had great connections to a few select agencies BUT when the market tanked those recruitment agents went to do other stuff and I was left wondering why agencies that I had fed margin to for years couldn't be bothered to call me back. (seems that they were under a pile of CV's and they didn't need to be so nice anymore)

Now a word on lowly word searching chap that doesn't care who he seems to spam. I had some conversations with one of the top suppliers in my field a few weeks back, because a chap that used to call me up fishing for leads and offering some of the dumbest jobs available had moved over the fence. I had kept an eye on him on LinkedIn, and saw where he had managed to get to work at, and dropped him a line...

It got me two things. A flagged recruitment record to proceed for a permanent role paying £120k a year + bonuses and a car. When the company next allow for recruitment into their EA practice and a direct connection to the organisations contracts administrator in the meantime, so that I can get first go at any Lead Architect Contracts that might turn up while I am waiting

[geoff from contracta IOM]

jobserve

I'm sorry to hear that. I've been using JS as a contractor, and as a permie, for around twelve years now. It's only recently (in the past 12 months or so) that I've noticed a specific change of direction towards less ethical business practices.

If you look at the amount of external advertisers now on their site I think the success of their change of direction speaks for itself.

[Gentile]

I had an advertising contract with Jobserve that they refused to honour for the full period of the contract for no genuine reason other than they wanted to sell the booked space for more money to another advertiser, it seems sharp practices are the norm for them.

I'm sorry to hear that. I've been using JS as a contractor, and as a permie, for around twelve years now. It's only recently (in the past 12 months or so) that I've noticed a specific change of direction towards less ethical business practices.

[geoff from contracta IOM]

I had an advertising contract with Jobserve that they refused to honour for the full period of the contract for no genuine reason other than they wanted to sell the booked space for more money to another advertiser, it seems sharp practices are the norm for them.

[Gentile]

On iProfile I changed all my details "DO NOT FUGGIN ADD ME AGAIN AS I WILL JUST DELETE IT AGAIN" and people still put me back on.

Yes, it's tempting to do that. Or to change the e-mail address to JS's own complaints address, so they can deal with the vast quantities of spam their actions generate.

The thing is, I have contacted people that I was interested in doing business with via JobServe in the past. Since the unsolicited profiles that JobServe now creates are available to anyone using JobServe (including people you have actually specifically chosen to send your CV to), it makes it inadvisable to change your details to an abusive message directed at others.

What I'll be doing in future, if I see a contract listed on JS that I want to apply for, is I'll just e-mail my CV directly to the agent concerned. They always list their name in their advert, and the contracts I'm typically interested in are usually listed by someone I've at least spoken with before. And even where I've not spoken with them, it's easy to find out agents' e-mail addresses: they don't exactly keep them secret. In my e-mail, I'll just provide a hyperlink to the advert I'm responding to, and in that way take JobServe out of the picture. I'm sure there's a small percentage of agents that don't respond to e-mail, because they're too busy doing keyword searches and sending hundreds of unsolicited emails per hour, but typically that's not the type of individual I deal with anyway.

[Gentile]

Hi,
Is there any particular reason why this annoys you, where as you are happy to publish a blog under your own name that allows anyone to find your company, its base address and your D.O.B in about 30 seconds?

I'd rather like Jobserve to help agents find me...

I find it unprofessional more than annoying, for the same reasons that many considered iProfiles that were created without permission unprofessional: i.e., because there's a lot more information on my CV than just my name, company name or DOB (well, month of birth – which is different), all of which information as you say is available online and I'm quite happy for people to know. My CV contains details of precisely which organisations I've worked for, and what I've done for them. I only make that information available to selected people I choose. Specifically, people that have advertised contracts that I'm interested in being considered for. I don't use LinkedIn for the same reason: who I know, and what I've done for them, is not information that I choose to place in the public domain.

iProfiles, and JobServe's version of same, are merely shortcuts to being spammed via e-mail, by people you've never expressed an interest in working for or through. Having your CV placed in a searchable database that is open to anyone invariably leads to you being contacted about totally unsuitable gigs that you wouldn't consider on your most desperate day and/or that are not within your skillset. That's why JobServe and iProfile had to "create profiles for" the people they wanted to sign up - none of us would touch them with a bargepole otherwise.

I only ever apply for jobs I'm actually interested in and qualified for (and, very occasionally, I hear from agents I've worked with in the past, usually to do a repeat gig through them). I'm not interested in somebody I don't know and have never heard of plucking my CV from JobServe via a lazy keyword search, seeing that I have 22 years experience inclusive of 10 years in .Net, and deciding that makes me the ideal candidate for this £100/day gig they have for a Java Developer in Timbuktu.

[minestrone]

On iProfile I changed all my details "DO NOT FUGGIN ADD ME AGAIN AS I WILL JUST DELETE IT AGAIN" and people still put me back on.

I found a page which I cannot find again that showed you the agencies that used the site and you could block them from updating your profile. That seemed to work.

Someone from iProfile came on this site after one of the many "iProfile, why is my CV on here and how can I get it off?" threads, she wanted to "clear up any confusion" and got set upon as I seem to remember, never came back. Would not have minded the site if they sent you an email "someone wants to add your details, are you OK with that?"

Anyway, I'm telling yees, If I ever have to send out my CV again bulk I will be doing it password protected PDF.

[bobspud]

Have any of you guys received an e-mail like this from JobServe recently?

"Dear Job Seeker,

We would like to help you find your next job.

You recently applied for one of the jobs advertised on JobServe via email and we would like to welcome you to JobServe and our Job Seeker services.

We have created a job seeker profile for you on our site with a password of .......... "

I received the above, after having made the mistake of contacting an agency through JobServe via the "Contact This Employment Agency" link (which is basically an e-mail address that is controlled by JobServe, but addressed to an individual at the Agency in question).

So, basically, JobServe has taken a 'private' e-mail correspondence from me to a third-party agent, and created an unwanted, searchable 'profile' on their site, containing my personal work history and contact details, without permission, purely to artificially boost their sign-up figures. I don't make my CV available to anyone prospectively, least of all to some dodgy open-to-the-public job site, and I resent it when a job board takes it upon themselves to sign me up for their crap 'service' without consent.

It reminds me of the old 'iProfile' fiasco that several agencies got involved in a few years back, where they'd post non-existent contract and permie jobs, then create iProfiles without consent for the unlucky candidates that applied. iProfile unsurprisingly died a death, and so did many of the agencies that used that model to promote their business. However, iProfile was at least agencies misusing information that had been sent *to them*. This appears to be a whole step beyond that: JobServe has move into the territory of intercepting communications between candidates and agencies, which communications they were not even the recipient of or party to, and misusing the information trawled from snooping.

I've been using JobServe since at least 2000, and have deliberately avoided using competing sites that behave unethically, such as TheITJobBoard ("once we buy your CV from someone, you'll never get off our spam list unless you contact the ICO and get them to force us to comply").

If any of the rest of you, particularly experienced contractors, have experienced this latest twist in the way JobServe operates, I'd be interested to know how you feel about it: just a hazzard of using job sites?, a symptom of the desperate business tactics that the latest recession has brought out?, or a worrying new way that this particular board has decided to contravene the DPA?

Hi,
Is there any particular reason why this annoys you, where as you are happy to publish a blog under your own name that allows anyone to find your company, its base address and your D.O.B in about 30 seconds?

I'd rather like Jobserve to help agents find me...

[The Gatekeeper]

Unfair critisism

Sorry, but you have not got your facts right. The profile created on JobServe is NOT searchable unless YOU make it so.

And, if you don't want an account/profile at all on JobServe you can just delete it.

I have used JobServe for over 7 years for my contracts and use my account to store my apps - and my CV is not searchable. Works for me!

I received the following response from JobServe today, regarding a complaint I had made concerning their having created a searchable profile for me on their site, by combining a CV I had sent to a selected recruiter with an e-mail address of mine that isn't even listed on said CV. Looks like JobServe has unwisely moved right into iProfile territory. All I need to do whenever they intercept the CVs I send to selected agents and publish them to the world without my consent is delete said profiles, apparently. Remind you of anyone?

I'll be giving these jokers a miss from now on, and advise anyone else that values their CV to do the same. It's not that difficult to contact agents directly. JobServe has really shot themselves in the foot with this BS if you ask me:

"Thank you for your email regarding the use of your personal data.

I think that I should clear up some of the misunderstandings in how the JobServe application process works to show that we do not misuse your data.

When you apply for a job on JobServe the application details are stored in the candidates profile, if they have one, and also in the recruiters account. The recruiter of the job you applied for will be able to login to their account and see the answers to any questions you entered on the job application form and view the CV and any covering letter that was attached to the application.

If the candidates email address that is used in the application is not recognised as an existing JobServe candidate, nor has it ever been a JobServe candidate, then a new profile is created. This profile is solely for ease of use by the candidate in any future activity they may have on JobServe and none of their personal details or CV are visible to any recruiters unless you choose to activate your CV and make it searchable.

You may login to your profile and remove all or some of your details at any time, as per the link in the Welcome to JobServe email below.

The reason that we have your hotmail address is because this was the email address that you used in your recent application. The application is made on JobServe, saved to both the candidate and recruiter accounts, and then forwarded to the recruiter to the address that they specify. The application is not made directly to the recruiter, but via JobServe.

The main reason for this is that the majority of our recruiters use our Application Manager tool in their JobServe account where they can easily see all applications for each individual job they have posted to better manage their recruitment process.

Because our candidate database works on unique email addresses, at no time would we associate your ******* address with your ********* address. As far as we are concerned these are treated as two separate candidates.

Please be assured that we do not misuse your personal data in any way. We certainly do not trawl through Blogs or any other media to search for email address etc.

I do hope that this explanation of our processes allays your fears of how your data is used. Please feel free to contact me should you want to clarify any points or discuss the matter further.

Regards

Les Powell
General Manager Product & Service Delivery"

[doomage]

"
Please be assured that we do not misuse your personal data in any way. We certainly do not trawl through Blogs or any other media to search for email address etc.

This more or less implies to me that they do this.

[NickFitz]

Reading that email, I think the real problem is that JobServe are unable to devise a system that anybody can understand. Including themselves.

[Gentile]

JobServe's Response

I received the following response from JobServe today, regarding a complaint I had made concerning their having created a searchable profile for me on their site, by combining a CV I had sent to a selected recruiter with an e-mail address of mine that isn't even listed on said CV. Looks like JobServe has unwisely moved right into iProfile territory. All I need to do whenever they intercept the CVs I send to selected agents and publish them to the world without my consent is delete said profiles, apparently. Remind you of anyone?

I'll be giving these jokers a miss from now on, and advise anyone else that values their CV to do the same. It's not that difficult to contact agents directly. JobServe has really shot themselves in the foot with this BS if you ask me:

"Thank you for your email regarding the use of your personal data.

I think that I should clear up some of the misunderstandings in how the JobServe application process works to show that we do not misuse your data.

When you apply for a job on JobServe the application details are stored in the candidates profile, if they have one, and also in the recruiters account. The recruiter of the job you applied for will be able to login to their account and see the answers to any questions you entered on the job application form and view the CV and any covering letter that was attached to the application.

If the candidates email address that is used in the application is not recognised as an existing JobServe candidate, nor has it ever been a JobServe candidate, then a new profile is created. This profile is solely for ease of use by the candidate in any future activity they may have on JobServe and none of their personal details or CV are visible to any recruiters unless you choose to activate your CV and make it searchable.

You may login to your profile and remove all or some of your details at any time, as per the link in the Welcome to JobServe email below.

The reason that we have your hotmail address is because this was the email address that you used in your recent application. The application is made on JobServe, saved to both the candidate and recruiter accounts, and then forwarded to the recruiter to the address that they specify. The application is not made directly to the recruiter, but via JobServe.

The main reason for this is that the majority of our recruiters use our Application Manager tool in their JobServe account where they can easily see all applications for each individual job they have posted to better manage their recruitment process.

Because our candidate database works on unique email addresses, at no time would we associate your ******* address with your ********* address. As far as we are concerned these are treated as two separate candidates.

Please be assured that we do not misuse your personal data in any way. We certainly do not trawl through Blogs or any other media to search for email address etc.

I do hope that this explanation of our processes allays your fears of how your data is used. Please feel free to contact me should you want to clarify any points or discuss the matter further.

Regards

Les Powell
General Manager Product & Service Delivery"

[mercenary]

I dont remember an iprofile fiasco - I dont think it is as used as much now as it was then but it is definitely still functioning. In 2005, I used it heavily and it seemed to have got me a lot of leads from small specialist type agencies but it is not getting me anything nowadays. In fact nothing is getting me anything nowadays!

[norrahe]

I seem to get the odd one, very infrequently now and haven't had one for a while. Always gets the delete treatment.

Same here.

[alluvial]

Unbelievable. I haven't seen or heard from them since around 2005-ish.

I seem to get the odd one, very infrequently now and haven't had one for a while. Always gets the delete treatment.