Reply to: What can my landlord do?

[eek]

Whats wrong eek? Why the perverse insinuations I am angry? Far from it. I haven't had any issues with my tenants, as previously noted, I have just had the advice to put certain clauses into my contracts, which I have pointed out.

It's strange you seem content to try and attack me, but not the point. Very strange, Is this your MO?

It's not working.

But it is working. If it wasn't working you would ignore my posts, as you reply to everyone clearly I do annoy you.

Shame really as the last one was literally just a joke.

[Old Hack]

Whats wrong eek? Why the perverse insinuations I am angry? Far from it. I haven't had any issues with my tenants, as previously noted, I have just had the advice to put certain clauses into my contracts, which I have pointed out.

It's strange you seem content to try and attack me, but not the point. Very strange, Is this your MO?

It's not working.

[eek]

I have got pics, also emails from him asking to come take his own photos of the damage 3mths in to tenancy as he was taking the previous people (or agency, I dont know and stayed well out of it!) to small claims. He lost and was threatened with contempt of court cos he lost his rag and was being unreasonable.

So you landlord is old hack.

[scooby]

Definitely too late.

Legally, it is assumed that the property is in perfect nick before you moved in UNLESS there is a detailed inventory that lists the exact state of the property.

Basically, if you can't prove the damage was not caused by you, you'll cop for it.

(This was explained to me when I worked for a housing consultancy who specialised in taking bribes from local authorities)

I have got pics, also emails from him asking to come take his own photos of the damage 3mths in to tenancy as he was taking the previous people (or agency, I dont know and stayed well out of it!) to small claims. He lost and was threatened with contempt of court cos he lost his rag and was being unreasonable.

[jezosaurus]

Possibly too late, but did you take photos on moving in?

Definitely too late.

Legally, it is assumed that the property is in perfect nick before you moved in UNLESS there is a detailed inventory that lists the exact state of the property.

Basically, if you can't prove the damage was not caused by you, you'll cop for it.

(This was explained to me when I worked for a housing consultancy who specialised in taking bribes from local authorities)

[Old Greg]

Can we stop making examples with sofas please?

tia

Have you left another deposit on yours?

[Old Hack]

<snip>

Thanks very much, for confirming, essentially, the advice I received.

+ve for that.

[Old Hack]

You make some reasonable points and based on what you've said, I will be asking my solicitor to reconfirm some points (believe it or not, my points are based on legal advice I have previously sought). You didn't need to be quite as much of an arse as you were, but your points are clearly backed up with some knowledge, so I'll definitely be asking for some clarification on some points as I'm quite happy to admit if I'm wrong on previously sought advice. Believe me, I have researched this and am not just regurgitating crap as you so charmingly put it.

But you've certainly given me some points to investigate further. Positive rep added for that.

This from someone telling me I was an idiot, wrong, etc, etc, ad nauseum....

Cracking irony...

[Old Hack]

WRONG!!!!

Cba with the rest, but there's your first mistake. It is your property business.

No, it isn't wrong, it is my house. I have others, one of which is in my wifes name, and she has a mortgage on, and one that is paid off, which is in my kids names.

Not a business.

[GillsMan]

<snip>

You make some reasonable points and based on what you've said, I will be asking my solicitor to reconfirm some points (believe it or not, my points are based on legal advice I have previously sought). You didn't need to be quite as much of an arse as you were, but your points are clearly backed up with some knowledge, so I'll definitely be asking for some clarification on some points as I'm quite happy to admit if I'm wrong on previously sought advice. Believe me, I have researched this and am not just regurgitating crap as you so charmingly put it.

But you've certainly given me some points to investigate further. Positive rep added for that.

[AtW]

As an example, you go to buy a sofa for £500 and put a deposit of £250 on

Can we stop making examples with sofas please?

tia

[GillsMan]

Its a house, not a business

WRONG!!!!

Cba with the rest, but there's your first mistake. It is your property business.

[Incognito]

The bit you're missing is that unfair terms are unenforceable.

You are absolutely correct with regards to that statement, however you are completely off the ball when trying to apply the law to the facts.

A contract term charging you a figure of £500 for late payment that can not be justified as a reasonable price for the service would be considered unfair as it is punitive in nature. However if that firm relying on that term can show that your breach of contract has cost them £500 then that is not an unfair term. It is a legitimate expectation of loss incurred.

A landlord's agreement that clearly states that any loss of earnings incurred through a tenant's breach of contract are recoverable will not be considered unfair.

As an example, you go to buy a sofa for £500 and put a deposit of £250 on it. T & C's say deposits non refundable. You go to cancel the contract and the seller tells you they are retaining the deposit. Now if the seller would only have made £100 profit on the sofa that term would be unenforceable as it is disproportionately high, i.e. it is not a genuine quantified loss. However, if he only retained £100 then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Contract law is designed to enable either party in event of a breach to recover damages to put you in the position you would have been in had the contract been performed. You can marry that with the tort of negligence if you are so averse to contract. You could sue a tenant for negligence with regards to any physical damage to your property that they have inflicted and recover any economic loss incurred as a result of the negligence.

Reasonable expenses are allowable. Loss of earnings from a business separate to your LL business are not.

Again you're making spurious comments. You are likely confusing recoverable costs when raising a claim at the small claims court with contractual damages. When raising a claim under £5000 at the small claims court you are able to recover reasonable expenses for the time that you have taken in raising the action. You can not recover any costs incurred as you said, for example legal fees, loss of earnings etc. However in Old Hack's case his claim for loss of earnings due to a breach of contract is the actual body of the claim rather than additional costs added on at the time of raising the action.

An example that you may be more familiar with is a mortgage. Typically when you take out a mortgage, you sign the document that states a list of charges that will be recoverable in event of a breach, for example solicitors fees, bailiff costs etc. Same analogy, you are the person in breach, you are expected to remedy the matter so that the innocent party (the one who actually hasn't done anything wrong) is not left out of pocket.

EDIT - Ah, I see you're clarifying that you'd be claiming for loss of dividends. Baffling.

The term is loss of earnings, not loss of wages. If you really want to research the subject rather than regurgitating crap then google for "hadley v baxendale two limbs"

There are two types of loss for which damages may be recovered:

1. those which arise naturally; and
2. those which the parties could foresee when the contract was made as the likely result of any breach.

The first rule covers physical damage, i.e. bathroom has been ripped out and needs replaced. The second rule holds the party in breach liable for additional loss where he has actual knowledge that the additional loss will result as a cause of his actions or he should reasonably have known that the additional loss will result as a cause of his actions.

There's decades of case law behind this, trust me I'm studying it at the moment and you're making yourself look daft.

[Old Hack]

The bit you're missing is that unfair terms are unenforceable. I could put a clause in my contract which states that tenants have to give me blowjobs if they're late on their rent if I like. If they sign, it's still "contractual". But no court would enforce it. Or, if I put a clause in which states "if you're late paying your rent, I'll have to spend a day chasing you up, and you'll be billed for loss of earnings which, because I'm a Solvency II BA is £1,500 per day plus VAT", do you really think a court will go for that? You say you've done it, good for you. Personally, I think that's BS based on legal advice I have obtained (from a specialist FYI) and what I've heard from other LLs.

Reasonable expenses are allowable. Loss of earnings from a business separate to your LL business are not.

Another question, if you're a permie, how do you claim for loss of earnings in your scenario. You've not lost earnings, but a day's holiday. So does this loss of earnings for chasing up a T only count for contractors?

Its a house, not a business, and in court, you can claim any loss of earnigns deemed reasonable. If I have lost earnigns as I have to attend court as someone has damaged my property, of course you're allowed to claim them from the T

As for pemies, yes, you can claim loss of earnings, be that having to take a day off work in lieu, as holiday, or whatever.

I'd look it up if I were you. As long as you have taken precautions not to be 'unreasonable' e.g. trying to meet builders etc at night, or making a meeting with the lawyer outside of work hours, then any claim is justified.

As I said, this isn't a legitimate company, it is an IT Contractor and solicitors, loss adjustors, etc, are well used to dealing with them.

This is from a legal professional, from whom I have paid for advice, which is documented.

There are no figures there, in the contract, just that they would be liable for any loss of earnings should I have to persue them fro damages over and beyond their deposit, etc.

Sheesh, on about armchair experts here. Get off google and ask a professional.

[GillsMan]

Ok, fixed a couple of things to start.

If I have a contract which states, and has been pointed out, that any losses to my earnings I incur chasing any lost rent and/or damages will be sought in court, is contractual. It's like saying I am not paying for damages to my lease car, as whilst it is in the T&C's, they aren't fair. In my last lease of a car, it said any damages which kept it off the road, I would be liable for lost income. I see no difference.
Savvy?

The bit you're missing is that unfair terms are unenforceable. I could put a clause in my contract which states that tenants have to give me blowjobs if they're late on their rent if I like. If they sign, it's still "contractual". But no court would enforce it. Or, if I put a clause in which states "if you're late paying your rent, I'll have to spend a day chasing you up, and you'll be billed for loss of earnings which, because I'm a Solvency II BA is £1,500 per day plus VAT", do you really think a court will go for that? You say you've done it, good for you. Personally, I think that's BS based on legal advice I have obtained (from a specialist FYI) and what I've heard from other LLs.

Reasonable expenses are allowable. Loss of earnings from a business separate to your LL business are not.

Another question, if you're a permie, how do you claim for loss of earnings in your scenario. You've not lost earnings, but a day's holiday. So does this loss of earnings for chasing up a T only count for contractors?

EDIT - Ah, I see you're clarifying that you'd be claiming for loss of dividends. Baffling.