Reply to: The Euro end-game is about to happen

[minestrone]

I think we should rearm and invade the failing nations, steal their gold, art and force taxation and work on them.

Does not have to be in a nasty nazi way, I have a nice Norman name and we were invading Italy to bring prosperity to them well before 1066.

[BrilloPad]

Poor regions of Europe will be only worse off with their own tanking currencies

In the short term yes. Medium and long term they will be much much better off.

[Sysman]

What must happen is that either the Euro will break up or states will have to surrender the running of their finances to the Germans. Britain should use the situation at the very least to renegotiate the terms of its membership to improve its position.

Whar? Our turn to take over Poland?

[AtW]

There's a lot of talk of tighter union, stricter rules, etc but economies are not just about written laws

If strict budget deficit rules were enforced then there would have been no debt crisis in Europe.

Poor regions of Europe will be only worse off with their own tanking currencies - the end result would be mass migration from there to wealthier parts of Europe with hard currency. The only way to stop it would be to stop whole single market altogether. Something little Englanders would love to see without a shadow of a doubt, but it won't happen.

[xoggoth]

There's a lot of talk of tighter union, stricter rules, etc but economies are not just about written laws and checks by bureaucrats, economies are about people, they are about attitudes, beliefs and ways of doing things down to the very lowest level. You don't change those in months, years, decades or even centuries.

How many centuries has England been a single nation with a single currency and the same laws? Yet look at the different economies in the North and South. Even if the EU leaders can get together and cobble together some fiscal pact it won't sort the problem.

[BrilloPad]

Personally, I am stocking up on beans, beer and ammo. nah, fck the beans

Get a gun instead of beans?

[EternalOptimist]

Personally, I am stocking up on beans, beer and ammo. nah, fck the beans

[BrilloPad]

I don't know what the solution is.

I do. Split Euro into Northern and Southern block. And then sub divide. The stronger block to leave.

Then find anyone who thought this was ever a good idea and take them to Nurembourg.

[Mich the Tester]

In spite of how I may sound sometimes (its merely the smugness of I told you so ), I don't want a disorderly break up of the Euro that would hurt everyone including Germany.
I don't know what the solution is. It's clear that one size cannot fit all at the moment.
There needs to be more political union before anything financial is done/or maybe 2 currencies.

Then I think we're on the same line; as far as I can see it's time to accept reality, the current system isn't working and it's time for sensible people to take the debate back from the left and right wingnuts and work out an orderly route to something new; maybe that's 2 currencies, maybe more. BUT, as I said, we'll still have to help Greece and Spain at least temporarily to prevent their states failing, and that's going to be unpopular among electorates in the north.

By the way, I know that in Britain there are plenty of moderate, sensible people who oppose the euro, but over here anti-EU and anti-euro ideas tend to come packaged along with a load of very ugly baggage including, but not limited to anti-muslim, antisemitic, anti-black people, anti gay people, anti rich people etc etc, and only now are the more 'decent' parties starting to discuss this.

[Mich the Tester]

give one example of where tax has been spent wisely

Hiring contractors to build IT systems. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

[sasguru]

Are you suggesting the Euro should be saved? Or saved as a stop-gap to give time to develop an alternative?

In spite of how I may sound sometimes (its merely the smugness of I told you so ), I don't want a disorderly break up of the Euro that would hurt everyone including Germany.
I don't know what the solution is. It's clear that one size cannot fit all at the moment.
There needs to be more political union before anything financial is done/or maybe 2 currencies.

[Mich the Tester]

Not everyone, the people doing transactions i.e. the banks. It would distribute the money from the poor to even richer bankers, accountants and lawyers.

ftfy

[Old Greg]

The end game is often the longest part of the game.

[russell]

How can everyone be better off by taxing everyone?

Isn't that a bit like filling up buckets of water by emptying others?

Not everyone, the people doing transactions i.e. the banks. It would distribute the money from rich bankers to the poor.

[DodgyAgent]

Who said Europe wide only, if Europe agreed then the US etc would follow. It would raise billions and the world would be saved, everyone would be well off even if Africa, even ATW.

Why would the US follow. give one example of where tax has been spent wisely (other than for bombing Germans and sinking French and Spanish ships?)