Reply to: Spain in state of total emergency

[petergriffin]

So I seem to understand all is going well and the future is bright and I can keep on paying off my credit card. Ole'!

[DodgyAgent]

Nasty again DA, has the market been bad for you?

Seriously, calm down and don't always think you have to be an arse to people to get your message across .. I've only just entered this thread.


Let me ask you a question - have you ever LIVED in another country? with another way of life or culture?

My views are based on my education and my experiences in the world. I've lived in countries that put far less relevance on GDP as a measure, and dont buy into all out capitalism like ourselves and the USA have done.

There are countries that are financially crocked, but the people are happy and quality of life is HIGHER..

What I thought I said quite clearly is my suggestion at an answer - the economy is a sliding scale , free market or planned and micro and macro.

We need to concentrate on moving that slider back down from Capitalism volume 11 (e.g GDP is all) and tone it down to "standard of living for YOUR citizens" - Multiculturalism can never work if the only rule of law is increasing profitability.

You didn't answer my quip either about public spending being the answer.

I am not having a good day so apologies. But it is tiresome to see everyone being so damned clever in criticising everything when they can offer no better alternative. The problem is that there is not enough capitalism and too few people enjoy the benefits of choice, self determination and responsibility. Too many people criticise capitalism and when contractors join in - having benefitted from it so much I get angry.
I have just come back from Singapore (where I grew up) and if you dont work you do not eat. The government (which pays lip service to democracy) makes sure that the environment is right for job creation. It also ensures that whilst there is no welfare state as such companies help out with schools and charities. the more they help the more for instance they are allowed to get work permits for overseas workers.
There are also too many cliches - give me a country that is poor and happy and I will give you a country that you would not be happy living in.

[Scoobos]

This is idealistic bollocks. Yet again you are another one who tries to force an argument based on a negative perception. We can all shout about how wrong everything is but why don't you be really clever and offer a workable alternative? It particularly annoys mme when I hear hypocrites like you who have personally prospered from the people and institutions that you so criticise. They may be muppets but they have made you very rich.

Nasty again DA, has the market been bad for you?

Seriously, calm down and don't always think you have to be an arse to people to get your message across .. I've only just entered this thread.


Let me ask you a question - have you ever LIVED in another country? with another way of life or culture?

My views are based on my education and my experiences in the world. I've lived in countries that put far less relevance on GDP as a measure, and dont buy into all out capitalism like ourselves and the USA have done.

There are countries that are financially crocked, but the people are happy and quality of life is HIGHER..

What I thought I said quite clearly is my suggestion at an answer - the economy is a sliding scale , free market or planned and micro and macro.

We need to concentrate on moving that slider back down from Capitalism volume 11 (e.g GDP is all) and tone it down to "standard of living for YOUR citizens" - Multiculturalism can never work if the only rule of law is increasing profitability.

You didn't answer my quip either about public spending being the answer.

[Doggy Styles]

It was joke, tongue in cheek.

But then humour was never your strong point.

Forgive me. I have seen many proposing moderate exchange rate moves as justification for or against the Euro.

[Scoobos]

Debt/GDP ratio? Not as bad as Italy and far lower than historical record

But as much as that's true - aren't the IMF and our puppet Governments stating that we can no longer afford public toilets ? Or that Austerity is necessary?

If the bloody victorians could afford public toilets, and the romans, I think we can.

[DodgyAgent]

Or maybe we are missing the point that perhaps we've gone crazy..

Money is just a method of using an exchange economy. Its got no value at all, just a promise from a central bank.

The fact that we're been ruled by complete idiots, bayed on by greedy morons who link money with success; seems to have gone missing. Also the rather obvious fact that we (every country) are ALL borrowing in order to grease the wheels of our microeconomies; over what we can actually barter back in salable goods or services that external countries want. But its ok, because the muppets who deal in the stock exchange "have confidence" that things will get better...

A single Europe is in everyones interests, in so far as we should all be seen as allies - would we prefer sporadic war over cultural and resource issues? We won't fare as well as we did in the last one, that's for sure.

Collapse - "How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" is worth a read... imo.

Smart arse comment on what we should do then? - My opinion is we should re-assess seriously what marks a successful country or its government, the balance of payments sheet, or the standard of living of its citizens, or becoming more self-sufficient.

This is idealistic bollocks. Yet again you are another one who tries to force an argument based on a negative perception. We can all shout about how wrong everything is but why don't you be really clever and offer a workable alternative? It particularly annoys mme when I hear hypocrites like you who have personally prospered from the people and institutions that you so criticise. They may be muppets but they have made you very rich.

[sasguru]

. Also ignoring the fact that UK is a much in the sh*te as Spain or Italy.

It's a means of exchange, .

How so?

Bank run? No
Interest on debt? Record Lows
Long term vs Short term debt? Long
Ability to shape own fiscal and monetary policy? Yup
Debt/GDP ratio? Not as bad as Italy and far lower than historical record

[BlasterBates]

Or maybe we are missing the point that perhaps we've gone crazy..

Money is just a method of using an exchange economy. Its got no value at all, just a promise from a central bank.

.

Got it one....

Of course in the UK it's become a symbol of sovereignty and suddenly it is the magic solution to all economic woes, whilst ignoring the fact that the UK went through countless number of economic crises since the second world war. Also ignoring the fact that UK is a much in the sh*te as Spain or Italy.

It's a means of exchange, and it needs to be stable. Beyond that it's up to government to shape economic policy and keep their finances in order.

If the Anti-Euros are right the UK will go bounding ahead outpacing the Eurozone.

But that's doubtful.

[Scoobos]

Countries run out of money and because they have no control over currency rates they cannot stimulate their economies to generate enough growth to pay back the loans.

So, whoa there ! Are you saying public spending is the answer?

[Scoobos]

Or maybe we are missing the point that perhaps we've gone crazy..

Money is just a method of using an exchange economy. Its got no value at all, just a promise from a central bank.

The fact that we're been ruled by complete idiots, bayed on by greedy morons who link money with success; seems to have gone missing. Also the rather obvious fact that we (every country) are ALL borrowing in order to grease the wheels of our microeconomies; over what we can actually barter back in salable goods or services that external countries want. But its ok, because the muppets who deal in the stock exchange "have confidence" that things will get better...

A single Europe is in everyones interests, in so far as we should all be seen as allies - would we prefer sporadic war over cultural and resource issues? We won't fare as well as we did in the last one, that's for sure.

Collapse - "How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" is worth a read... imo.

Smart arse comment on what we should do then? - My opinion is we should re-assess seriously what marks a successful country or its government, the balance of payments sheet, or the standard of living of its citizens, or becoming more self-sufficient.

[sasguru]

If he cannot "win" an argument he then shifts it to a subject where he think he can win. Must be an interesting individual to try an manage

Long term low-level juniors don't need much management.

[DodgyAgent]

The thing with BB is he's like a mule. He'll take a position and defend it against all evidence, when a rational, sentient, intelligent being changes their mind on the basis of new data.

So for example the fact that there's a bank run in Spain and interest rates on their bonds hit record levels this week, the fact that the Greek elderly are grubbing about in bins for food etc etc just makes no impact on the tiny nodule that sits on top of his spine.

If he cannot "win" an argument he then shifts it to a subject where he think he can win. Must be an interesting individual to try an manage

[sasguru]

The thing with BB is he's like a mule. He'll take a position and defend it against all evidence, when a rational, sentient, intelligent being changes their mind on the basis of new data.

So for example the fact that there's a bank run in Spain and interest rates on their bonds hit record levels this week, the fact that the Greek elderly are grubbing about in bins for food etc etc just makes no impact on the tiny nodule that sits on top of his spine.

[DodgyAgent]

Tell us what's going to happen oh wise one.

...and lets see if you've understood it shall we.

I have explained it ad infinitum. You seem to want to turn it into an argument that has nothing to do with the reality of what is going on. For example you see the problem as one of debt. This is true but you simply fail to understand that the Euro has accelerated borrowing in countries where interest rates urgently needed to rise (to stop people borrowing cheap money to buy Spanish holiday homes for example). Countries run out of money and because they have no control over currency rates they cannot stimulate their economies to generate enough growth to pay back the loans.

[BlasterBates]

Yet again you have no understanding of what this Euro thing is all about do you?

Tell us what's going to happen oh wise one.

...and lets see if you've understood it shall we.