Reply to: Greece/EURO/shares etc...

[Jog On]

Banks prepare for the return of the drachma | Reuters

[DodgyAgent]

Perhaps if the UK had joined the Euro then they could have been the powerhouse of Europe, dictating terms, being an economic powerhouse...perhaps...

More likely that with an inferior economy the UK would have been subjugated to the Germans also.

[DodgyAgent]

Great Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries...

I think more recently than that

[Old Hack]

I think you are going to see Hollande also taking a tough stance against the Greeks. His retoric with regard to austerity was mainly aimed at France, not handing over French money to the Greeks.

What I don't see in the UK is everyone jumping up and down pushing their government to handover billions to the Greeks. They could if they wanted, and then the Greeks wouldn't have to listen to the Germans, or indeed all the other countries hiding behind Germany who don't want to hand over billions to the Greeks either without them increasing the retirement age from 61, not paying pensions to dead people etc etc.

I think we're all quite happy to see Greece default and start out again. I don't want to give them money, and I believe the gov was quite clear they didn't either.

Hollande will quickly realise his country is in the mire, through over exposure to the southern states and once Spain joins in the Greek tragedy, France will realise she's quite in the tulip too.

The Germans are quite clearly pushing their financial culture on others not able to maintain it. It's the whole reason the euro was doomed. That they are now sat at the head of the top table dictating terms is reprehensible, given they should really have doen their sums. Did you know, that the Germans knew thr Italians weren't ready for the euro, according to their own rules, and still admitted them, same for the greeks, and, to be honest, I hope the tulip storm heading Germany's way, takes them down too.

The dichotomy is that they will be the architects of their own fall from the lofty plinth they've placed themselves on.

[BlasterBates]

.....But now, Germany is setting the dialogue at every meeting. The only noises you are hearing from Germany, just a state in the EU remember, is that they, the austerity measures, are not negotiable. They're the only ones saying this now.

I still believe it's occupation via the back door.

I think you are going to see Hollande also taking a tough stance against the Greeks. His retoric with regard to austerity was mainly aimed at France, not handing over French money to the Greeks.

What I don't see in the UK is everyone jumping up and down pushing their government to handover billions to the Greeks. They could if they wanted, and then the Greeks wouldn't have to listen to the Germans, or indeed all the other countries hiding behind Germany who don't want to hand over billions to the Greeks either without them increasing the retirement age from 61, not paying pensions to dead people etc etc.

[SupremeSpod]

The Germans always wanted the Fourth Reich.

Funny you should say that...

BBC News - Viewpoint: Let Germans read Mein Kampf

[darmstadt]

True, intentionally or not though the Germans are the ones to have benefitted the most from the Euro - by a country mile.

Perhaps if the UK had joined the Euro then they could have been the powerhouse of Europe, dictating terms, being an economic powerhouse...perhaps...

[darmstadt]

The Germans are gradually taking over Europe - raping and pillaging it along the way- where have we seen this before?

Great Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries...

[DodgyAgent]

It wasn't the Germans who wanted the Euro, it was France under Mitterand, strongly supported by Club Med. Helmut Kohl agreed to it to smooth the way for German unification. Greece was keen to join and fiddled the figures to get in.

It's just that the Germans are an economic power house. They have the money to bail everyone out.

True, intentionally or not though the Germans are the ones to have benefitted the most from the Euro - by a country mile.

[DodgyAgent]

What should be happening is that labour should be following the work within Europe so the Greek unemployed should be flooding in to Germany this would have the effect of reducing Greek unemployment and reducing the costs of investing in Greece whilst at the same time adding inflationary pressure onto Germany leading eventually to a recovery of the Greek economy. This would happen in the USA and indeed it does. Language and cultural differences are such that this does not happen.

I think I am going to set up a German language school!

[BrilloPad]

I was of the impression it was a collaborative effort on Germany and France. The EU was a wish of the Germans back in 57 and a common currency was always part of their plans. When the wall came down, it was put on the back burner by West Germany as it was worried about the costs, understanding it would be costing them a lot for reunification (and worried about devaluing the strong Mark), but they were told the UK and France would support unification if they committed to monetary union. That was 87.

The French were the real drivers of the Euro, I get that. But now, Germany is setting the dialogue at every meeting. The only noises you are hearing from Germany, just a state in the EU remember, is that they, the austerity measures, are not negotiable. They're the only ones saying this now.

I still believe it's occupation via the back door.

The Germans always wanted the Fourth Reich.

[Old Hack]

I was of the impression it was a collaborative effort on Germany and France. The EU was a wish of the Germans back in 57 and a common currency was always part of their plans. When the wall came down, it was put on the back burner by West Germany as it was worried about the costs, understanding it would be costing them a lot for reunification (and worried about devaluing the strong Mark), but they were told the UK and France would support unification if they committed to monetary union. That was 87.

The French were the real drivers of the Euro, I get that. But now, Germany is setting the dialogue at every meeting. The only noises you are hearing from Germany, just a state in the EU remember, is that they, the austerity measures, are not negotiable. They're the only ones saying this now.

I still believe it's occupation via the back door.

[BlasterBates]

It wasn't the Germans who wanted the Euro, it was France under Mitterand, strongly supported by Club Med. Helmut Kohl agreed to it to smooth the way for German unification. Greece was keen to join and fiddled the figures to get in.

It's just that the Germans are an economic power house. They have the money to bail everyone out.

[Old Hack]

I have come to the conclusion that the Germans now have the control over Europe they so desperately craved in WW2. Souinds a bit trite, but it feels true to me. Would be funny to see their traditional bed partner France renegotiate. Possibly a good time for the UK to start renegotiating.

I read a book that explained as powers were handed over to the EU from individual states, they couldn't be returned, there was no mechanism for returning power to the individual states, and I guess this is what is meant by pooling sovereignty. Sounds a bit hairy to me, sounds very war like...

[DodgyAgent]

I watched Michael Portillo last night investigating this in a program called the World. The chilling interview with the German finance minister sent a message that the Euro was now interwoven into the fabric of Europe and that it could'nt be undone and that countries "may need to consider their sovereignty status" Asked about the Greeks outcome the best he said was he "hoped" they would come out of it as if even though Greece has pooled its sovereignty with the rest of Europe that it was on its own getting out of the mess.

The German bastards have a thriving economy thanks to their wiping out of all competition from other European nations. These nations have borrowed money (lent by the Germans) to buy German goods at prices kept low by the relatively low value of the Euro.

The Germans are gradually taking over Europe - raping and pillaging it along the way- where have we seen this before?