Reply to: So this is what Microsoft call progress?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Required skills lists make me laugh.

If you even hint that you might not have 10/10 super expert skills on everything on the crazily unrealistic list then you don't get past the agent.

When you get the job you realise 90% of the skills aren't required and that nobody else at the gig knows how to do any of that stuff either. So what they want is someone who has loads of experience with the latest brand new technologies - but is really looking not to use that stuff in their new role.

My last place they advertised for a similar position and literally lifted the skills section of my CV as the requirements. Clowns. 75% of that wasn't required for the role and was very niche.

Happens everytime.....

[DieScum]

Required skills lists make me laugh.

If you even hint that you might not have 10/10 super expert skills on everything on the crazily unrealistic list then you don't get past the agent.

When you get the job you realise 90% of the skills aren't required and that nobody else at the gig knows how to do any of that stuff either. So what they want is someone who has loads of experience with the latest brand new technologies - but is really looking not to use that stuff in their new role.

My last place they advertised for a similar position and literally lifted the skills section of my CV as the requirements. Clowns. 75% of that wasn't required for the role and was very niche.

[jmo21]

I was asked to develop an app in rapid time during my last role due to another guy wasting 4 months on an utter piece of crap. I ended up developing a suite of Classic ASP apps 10 x faster than the guy tried to do it in .NET 4.0. I have used .NET 4.0 and no doubt it is a superb technology but Classic ASP is so light weight, efficient and quick to develop in (once you have a few years experience in it) I don't see why it isn't used more often to deliver strategic/in house solutions.

It's highly likely he was just a poor dev or inexperienced in .Net 4

If he was a poor dev or inexperienced in classic asp, and tried it in asp, it would probably have been a lot worse than his .Net 4 effort.

The toolset is usually not the problem.

[eek]

I get "practice" tests from u-Certify. Worked when I did the .Net 2.0 exams.

FTFY.

To be honest I've found that Microsoft have a habit of introducing something for it to disappear later so I stick to the basics.

I can write classic asp but its crap compared to .net so I usually stick to standard web forms. If its public facing and has security requirements I will use mvc but only because it allows far more testing which I can charge and bill for.

[suityou01]

I got the 70-515 book. Pretty good as an overview of the stuff that's new in .Net 4 (I was coming from 2), but pretty crap for passing the exam. I quite liked the look of MVC - seemed more like the old days of coding when you told your code what to do and how to do it, but haven't used it in anger.

I get practice tests from u-Certify. Worked when I did the .Net 2.0 exams.

[mudskipper]

In my bench time I've noticed the job specs getting more and more like novels rather than shopping lists. Some new terms out there for me, as I've not really been doing coding roles for the past couple of years.

Bearing in mind I've been courting a classic asp role this past couple of days I have had a glaring insight into the then and now.

So what was classic asp, vb6 middleware with COM+. html and css has become some utter .Net 4, html 5, MVC3 mindfck.

Time to wear leather elbow patches and not even think about venturing back into coding or was the MCTS book on 70-515 worth the £29 and I should get into all this MVC crap?

And TDD and all the agile garb? Plus knowledge of exotics and derivatives a must, and fluent in Estonian?

A man could go nuts just trying to earn a crust.

I got the 70-515 book. Pretty good as an overview of the stuff that's new in .Net 4 (I was coming from 2), but pretty crap for passing the exam. I quite liked the look of MVC - seemed more like the old days of coding when you told your code what to do and how to do it, but haven't used it in anger.

[Pogle]

I have used SSIS extensively from the first day it was released - I think it is probably the best ETL tool out there in terms of simplicity and overall effectiveness. My argument is that if you know ASP inside out you can code solutions in the fraction of the time it takes you to do it in .NET in most scenarios. Of course enterprise level and major online website you would go for .NET.

Its cheap and easily available - what other ETL tools have you used?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

You must be joking. What kind of app was that ? something that output hello world ?

For a proper DB driven app asp.net is 10 times more rapid than classic ASP.

I am my trade a SQL/BI developer so all the code and business logic goes into the database layer and it is purely the presentation that is left on the web app layer. I have strong knowledge of javascript for all the dynamic stuff (which is needed in .NET as well anyway) leaving classic asp to do the connection and retrieval/sending of data. Easy peesy

[fullyautomatix]

I was asked to develop an app in rapid time during my last role due to another guy wasting 4 months on an utter piece of crap. I ended up developing a suite of Classic ASP apps 10 x faster than the guy tried to do it in .NET 4.0. I have used .NET 4.0 and no doubt it is a superb technology but Classic ASP is so light weight, efficient and quick to develop in (once you have a few years experience in it) I don't see why it isn't used more often to deliver strategic/in house solutions.

You must be joking. What kind of app was that ? something that output hello world ?

For a proper DB driven app asp.net is 10 times more rapid than classic ASP.

[AtW]

Is that near Kent?

It's near Ethiopia.

HTH

[suityou01]

I have used SSIS extensively from the first day it was released - I think it is probably the best ETL tool out there in terms of simplicity and overall effectiveness. My argument is that if you know ASP inside out you can code solutions in the fraction of the time it takes you to do it in .NET in most scenarios. Of course enterprise level and major online website you would go for .NET.

Well I see what you're saying and classic asp can be rolled out pretty quicky to do something quick and dirty, that takes no load. Intranet 10-50 users. Hell I've even seen access mdb's used as the back end. Quick and dirty.

OTH I thought .NET was very cool. ASP.Net, C#, some middleware, some XML table mappings, all the security baked in and connection pooling. All good stuff.

Meanwhile the java mob were all tugging at their turtlenecks, fussing about which pattern to use, the .Netters were up and running.

Now with all this .Net 4 MVC malarky it looks like Microsoft when all design-patterny too, just to keep up with the Java/Oracle crowd.

I honestly wonder how many on here that are regular .Netters actually have eaten and slept this new fad.

Milan?

DP you are a pathological liar and need not answer.

MF?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I quote often see the other side of the argument, people who refuse to let go of T-SQL and embrace SSIS. What this means is reams and reams of unintelligible T-SQL code which must have taken weeks of eye bleeding coding to replicate something which would take me 2 minutes of drag and drop in SSIS.

I have used SSIS extensively from the first day it was released - I think it is probably the best ETL tool out there in terms of simplicity and overall effectiveness. My argument is that if you know ASP inside out you can code solutions in the fraction of the time it takes you to do it in .NET in most scenarios. Of course enterprise level and major online website you would go for .NET.

[MarillionFan]

This place is full of highly paid people with low ethics.

Except for suity.

Is that near Kent?

[suityou01]

This place is full of highly paid people with low ethics.

Except for suity.

I really really need to let those blasted ethics things go.

£5 for a gnosh. Form an orderly queue.

[AtW]

It's .CON crash all over again: