Reply to: NHS. Time to go?

[DodgyAgent]

As for Nationalising the Rail network Margaret Hodge hits the nail on the head:

"I think people come into the public service because they want a different sort of challenge," she said. "They are highly skilled, highly intelligent people they’re just not given the appropriate training. Civil servants are never left in the job long enough, the way that you climb the greasy pole in the Civil Service is that you change your job every couple of years, that's a disaster and we need to leave people in post so that they take proper responsibility for the very difficult and complex jobs that they have to do.”
Government sources have said “heads will definitely roll in the department” over the affair. However, they insist “the minister cannot be expected to be responsible for a very technical models witih hundreds of lines in a spreadsheet”.
The key error seems to have been to underestimate the potential value of the franchise - where the company pays a premium to the Government, rather than receiving a subsidy.
The department said mistakes had been made over estimates of the number of passengers who would use the route and the way inflation was calculated.
Just days after taking over as transport secretary last month, Mr McLoughlin had told MPs on the transport committee that he was “satisfied that due diligence was done by the department”.
Yesterday, he said: “I want to make it absolutely clear that neither FirstGroup nor Virgin did anything wrong.
"The fault of this lies wholly and squarely with the Department for Transport. Both of those two companies acted properly on the advice that they were getting from the Department.”
Last night the bill for the taxpayer from the fiasco was mounting. Mr McLoughlin said that taxpayers would have to refund the £40million cost of bidding for the franchise to the four companies.
There could be further costs if other franchises have to be rebid as well. Companies have already submitted tenders to run one of the other three franchises, for Essex Thameside which is due to begin in May 2013.

[DodgyAgent]

This is an experience not uncommon in many fields: you think that if you privatise something then there will be efficiency gains, greater choice, and less or no subsidy so you will pay less tax.

Usually the opposite happens: there are efficiency losses due to fragmentation, and profit taken out (reasonably enough that is what private companies go into it for), so more subsidy is needed, not less.

Look at the railways for a fine example: they now get 4 times the subsidy that British Rail got.

How misleading.

No account taken to extra users of train services, frequency of services etc

[DodgyAgent]

whs

I've seen the previously socialised Dutch healthcare system privatised and it's become more expensive, more bureaucratic and now swallows more tax money than ever before.

How exactly have you come to that conclusion? I presume you have weighed up any changes in services etc?

[Ignis Fatuus]

whs

I've seen the previously socialised Dutch healthcare system privatised and it's become more expensive, more bureaucratic and now swallows more tax money than ever before.

This is an experience not uncommon in many fields: you think that if you privatise something then there will be efficiency gains, greater choice, and less or no subsidy so you will pay less tax.

Usually the opposite happens: there are efficiency losses due to fragmentation, and profit taken out (reasonably enough that is what private companies go into it for), so more subsidy is needed, not less.

Look at the railways for a fine example: they now get 4 times the subsidy that British Rail got.

[tractor]

...

Another option is to go with him to the next appointment. Book an appointment over the phone with the hospital PALS team for an hour before the appointment. Email your PALS contact before you see them outlining all your concerns. Emphasise the cancelled operation. PM me if you like. I've. spent my life working / contracting in the NHS.

^This is good advice

[Ignis Fatuus]

Well the Turks seem to do alright, and that graph shows they spend much less than us.

So why can't we abolish the NHS and adopt the Turkish system?

In terms of health, life expectancy at birth in Turkey is 74 years, six years lower than the OECD average of 80 years.

(source: OECD)

[Mich the Tester]

I had a similar experience, NOT a heart attack, but came off my motorbike and broke both arms in 2005.

Conscious the whole time, except when they were pinning my arms, all done and dusted in 4-5 hours.
Obviously I had 2 more months off work, thanks goodness I was a perm at the time.

Personally I find morphine highly over-rated, still in a stinking load of pain with quite a dose in me, prob because I am not a little lad.

The NHS may be inefficient, but don't bin it, improve it.

And because of this experience I voted NO!

Long live the NHS.

whs

I've seen the previously socialised Dutch healthcare system privatised and it's become more expensive, more bureaucratic and now swallows more tax money than ever before.

[Mich the Tester]

And there lies the problem. As soon as anyone tries to reform it the vested interests make out that ALL healthcare will be compromised and every sob story gets reeled out to support it. The waste corruption and sheer inefficiency of the NHS is ignored and allowed to grow unchallenged.

And there lies the problem. As soon as anyone actually reforms you get new vested interests that make out that ALL healthcare will be compromised, i.e. insurers. The waste corruption and sheer inefficiency of the insurance industry is ignored and allowed to grow unchallenged.

[OwlHoot]

The NHS may still be there, but it looks as if TimberWolf has gone

Last Activity 17th August 2012 15:34

[Scrag Meister]

You are a moron. Here's why I think that. HTH, HAND.

I had a similar experience, NOT a heart attack, but came off my motorbike and broke both arms in 2005.

Conscious the whole time, except when they were pinning my arms, all done and dusted in 4-5 hours.
Obviously I had 2 more months off work, thanks goodness I was a perm at the time.

Personally I find morphine highly over-rated, still in a stinking load of pain with quite a dose in me, prob because I am not a little lad.

The NHS may be inefficient, but don't bin it, improve it.

And because of this experience I voted NO!

Long live the NHS.

[Paddy]

The NHS is over managed and inefficient but any alternative will be worse. Currently if you have a stroke or get cancer; you will be treated. If the same happens to you in the US it would probably bankrupt you even if you have insurance.

[d000hg]

I don't think we had this discussion DA... do you think the NHS should be privatised in the sense of private healthcare where you have to have health insurance (or pay through the nose), or do you reckon a privatised health system could still offer free health care?

[DodgyAgent]

try live in a place with no 'NHS' such as the USA or Latin America.

You will tulip yourself when you get sick or pregnant or break a leg - because you will have very little idea if you are covered and by which network and what is the co-pay and what are the hospital fees and how many staff fees do you need to cover etc etc etc. Price of medication . It is awful.

...and the free stuff medicare/medicaid - get up early and join a long long queue to get seen, maybe.

The NHS really is worth saving or reforming NOT scrapping.

And there lies the problem. As soon as anyone tries to reform it the vested interests make out that ALL healthcare will be compromised and every sob story gets reeled out to support it. The waste corruption and sheer inefficiency of the NHS is ignored and allowed to grow unchallenged.

[palatino winotype]

Why does my local hospital's cancer unit depend on charitable donations after the NHS was hosed down with all that taxpayer's money under the Brown terror?

No it's not the nasty Tories. It's been going on for years.

I would have thought that cancer treatment would be the absolute numero uno priority for state funding - way before overseas aid, benefit scroungers etc.

[ctdctd]

Another option is to go with him to the next appointment. Book an appointment over the phone with the hospital PALS team for an hour before the appointment. Email your PALS contact before you see them outlining all your concerns. Emphasise the cancelled operation. PM me if you like. I've. spent my life working / contracting in the NHS.

Thanks OG,

I went with him pre op to an appointment which seemed to go well. That hospital then referred him back to the original one saying he was too much of a risk to operate on.

6 weeks on, the original hospital is "investigating" the same operation.