Reply to: Who most wants independence for Scotland? The English…

[shaunbhoy]

So how successful was WWII?

Do you speak German?
We know you are fluent in bollocks.

[scooterscot]

So how successful was WWII -it started as a guarantee for Poland's independence but ended up with Nazi rule being replaced by Stalin
Would the panel agree that given this outcome, 55 million dead was hardly a price worth paying?

There's still 1 missing from that number.

[Troll]

Were they American?

Just asking like, because the second world war was fought to save the world from the Nazi's and the Bolsheviks, not to protect "Democracy" which has never been the political system du jour within the United Kingdom.

So how successful was WWII -it started as a guarantee for Poland's independence but ended up with Nazi rule being replaced by Stalin
Would the panel agree that given this outcome, 55 million dead was hardly a price worth paying?

[scooterscot]

So your lot were fighting to protect Democracy while the rest were fighting for "King and Country" - the Constitutional Monarchy.

Ja something like that.

[Churchill]

The war before that one.

So your lot were fighting to protect Democracy while the rest were fighting for "King and Country" - the Constitutional Monarchy.

[scooterscot]

Were they American?

Just asking like, because the second world war was fought to save the world from the Nazi's and the Bolsheviks, not to protect "Democracy" which has never been the political system du jour within the United Kingdom.

The war before that one.

[Churchill]

Agreed. There's strength in numbers. There is absolutely no argument there. It is irrefutable. Members of my own family have fallen protecting democracy.

What happens to the flock however when not everyone wants to fly in the same direction? What happens when our once core manufacturing industry the north prided itself on is replaced by the need for unrealistic growth and growth and some more growth through city greed?

Devolution happens. And for the first time in in 300 years people are being offered an alternative direction to fly. One that does not involve war mongering and gambling whilst promoting steady growth.

Were they American?

Just asking like, because the second world war was fought to save the world from the Nazi's and the Bolsheviks, not to protect "Democracy" which has never been the political system du jour within the United Kingdom.

[shaunbhoy]

What happens to the flock however when not everyone wants to fly in the same direction?

Bonsoir - ici nous avons les diagrammes modernes d'un mouton anglo-français ... maintenant ... baa-aa, baa-aa... nous avons, dans la tête, le cabinc. Ici, on se trouve le petit capitaine Anglais, Monsieur Trubshawe

[scooterscot]

I firmly believe we are stronger if we all stick together, but let democracy have its say.
It is what generations of my family have fought to preserve, the right to self determination.

Agreed. There's strength in numbers. There is absolutely no argument there. It is irrefutable. Members of my own family have fallen protecting democracy.

What happens to the flock however when not everyone wants to fly in the same direction? What happens when our once core manufacturing industry the north prided itself on is replaced by the need for unrealistic growth and growth and some more growth through city greed?

Devolution happens. And for the first time in in 300 years people are being offered an alternative direction to fly. One that does not involve war mongering and gambling whilst promoting steady growth.

[AtW]

As it happens, if I still lived there then I would probably vote to stay within the Union.

Of course you would

[shaunbhoy]

The Scots living in England are bitterly opposed to Independence because they don't suffer from the inferiority complexes of their homeland population.

I don't recall petitioning you to speak upon my behalf DA?

As it happens, if I still lived there then I would probably vote to stay within the Union. However I am quite content to accept whatever result the people now living there (and let us not forget, that also includes a great many English people) should democratically come up with.
Similarly, I would have no problem with the people of England voting to be independent of the Union if that were the majority opinion.
I firmly believe we are stronger if we all stick together, but let democracy have its say.
It is what generations of my family have fought to preserve, the right to self determination.

[scooterscot]

"a) a new location would have to be identified that could offer the same strategic advantages at Faslane/Coulport; out of the way, deep-water anchorage, local(ish) skill sets etc. Let's face somewhere like Portsmouth is a non-starter on practically every level.
(b) it's going to take many years to even get planning permission to locate the new base, Cumbria's a possibility on the above criteria, which might please KimberleyChris."

Thanks. Yes, it would be a bit of a grin.

Especially as they are built in Barrow-in-Furness in the first place.

The only drawback is that the Eastern Irish Sea is pretty shallow (about 90 feet) so the subs won't be able to 'vanish' like they do when leaving the Clyde.

From a practical point of view I agree with your comments re Rosyth and I am sure that Salmond knows this and thinks he will be able to bargain with it. Moving public sector jobs that support the UK (and I mean England, wales and N.Ireland) will happen. Scotland obviously will run its own (huge) public sector. However Scotland simply has no substantial public sector to support its own economy. It is this reason why we English want rid of the Scots we no longer wish to support them. The Scots living in England are bitterly opposed to Independence because they don't suffer from the inferiority complexes of their homeland population.

You really are starting to struggle for credible arguments now. I had to read that twice over, lost and confused is the only description that can be given; nothing of substance as usual.

Not to mention you completely lost the argument for a strategic location for the nuclear deterrent. Why would a UK government without Scotland choose to relocate them? Even if independence were gained the facility would be leased for ages and ages until other options presented themselves. You really think the entire fleet would be relocated in the next 18 months?

You make our history sound like relationship between Israel and Palestine whilst forgetting the previous 300 years of history. The country has since evolved and SNP only want to control it's own finances in a manner that's very different to Westminster.

Aim high land somewhere in-between. You'll never learn will you?

[DodgyAgent]

Quite so, but if you look at the wider picture:
(a) a new location would have to be identified that could offer the same strategic advantages at Faslane/Coulport; out of the way, deep-water anchorage, local(ish) skill sets etc. Let's face somewhere like Portsmouth is a non-starter on practically every level.
(b) it's going to take many years to even get planning permission to locate the new base, Cumbria's a possibility on the above criteria, which might please KimberleyChris.
(c) it's going to take time to build and commision the new base.

This would mean that there would be at least 10-15 years for a handover and that's a long, long time in politics. Who knows the Chinese might put in a bid to take it over as an Atlantic outpost, much like Diego Garcia or Okinawa...


As regards to call centres, not many companies can compete with India on price, change that to value for money and it's a different story though (WIPRO anyone?)

Oh, and UK and England are not interchangeable terms

From a practical point of view I agree with your comments re Rosyth and I am sure that Salmond knows this and thinks he will be able to bargain with it. Moving public sector jobs that support the UK (and I mean England, wales and N.Ireland) will happen. Scotland obviously will run its own (huge) public sector. However Scotland simply has no substantial public sector to support its own economy. It is this reason why we English want rid of the Scots we no longer wish to support them. The Scots living in England are bitterly opposed to Independence because they don't suffer from the inferiority complexes of their homeland population.

[KimberleyChris]

"a) a new location would have to be identified that could offer the same strategic advantages at Faslane/Coulport; out of the way, deep-water anchorage, local(ish) skill sets etc. Let's face somewhere like Portsmouth is a non-starter on practically every level.
(b) it's going to take many years to even get planning permission to locate the new base, Cumbria's a possibility on the above criteria, which might please KimberleyChris."

Thanks. Yes, it would be a bit of a grin.

Especially as they are built in Barrow-in-Furness in the first place.

The only drawback is that the Eastern Irish Sea is pretty shallow (about 90 feet) so the subs won't be able to 'vanish' like they do when leaving the Clyde.

[Goatfell]

It is not a question of whether a Nuclear deterrent is necessary you total utter tool. The fact is that there is a Nuclear powered submarine fleet along with trident missiles that are held and supported in Scotland employing thousands of workers. Scotland can take its unilateral disarmament stance and get rid of these, but in doing so all the jobs will be lost or relocated to the UK.


The same applies to the call centres. Whether the jobs are relocated to England or India is irrelevant they will not be kept in Scotland, unless Scotland can make a business case against India to outsource them. Unless the Scots can compete on price with India the UK would bring the jobs back.

Quite so, but if you look at the wider picture:
(a) a new location would have to be identified that could offer the same strategic advantages at Faslane/Coulport; out of the way, deep-water anchorage, local(ish) skill sets etc. Let's face somewhere like Portsmouth is a non-starter on practically every level.
(b) it's going to take many years to even get planning permission to locate the new base, Cumbria's a possibility on the above criteria, which might please KimberleyChris.
(c) it's going to take time to build and commision the new base.

This would mean that there would be at least 10-15 years for a handover and that's a long, long time in politics. Who knows the Chinese might put in a bid to take it over as an Atlantic outpost, much like Diego Garcia or Okinawa...


As regards to call centres, not many companies can compete with India on price, change that to value for money and it's a different story though (WIPRO anyone?)

Oh, and UK and England are not interchangeable terms