Reply to: 0.273

[EricBartlett]

So boxing is also not a sport? Or any martial art - they all rely on someone to do the scoring. Even football, rugby and cricket rely on a subjective referee, whose judgement often determines who wins.

All these sports have objective scoring systems, it is NOT a judge just deciding how much they like it. Small margins of error are accounted for by having multiple judges.

Although I see where you are coming from with some of your argument I think you are being a bit shady wrt boxing and martial arts - in their basic form you don't score points the winner is the one who can still batter the loser, although if you know the rules it is possible to rule the punch that rendered the opponent insensible was not a "scoring" punch because it was with the wrong part of the glove.

With football/rugby/cricket it is perfectly possible to play a game entirely without any ref - thousands of people do it all the time and they all, winners and losers, know the result.

You could also explain the rules to "anyone" and they would be able to decide on goals/scoring/catches etc with no subjectivity involved. I am not saying all refs are entirely objective all the time but thats a different argument.
Based on facts all scoring could be counted and the winner decided.

If doog and his mates played a footie game against an invitation side of Brazil and Barcelona at the end of the match whoever had scored the most goals would be the winner and no amount of opinion about who played technically better etc would matter.

If two gymnasts did their stuff without a "ref" to offer an opinion there would not be a winner. As assuming both were competent any decision as to which performance was better would be subjective.
If they both did a forward roll and a handstand it is only opinion as to which was prettier.

Don't some of these activities even have marks for Artistic Merit?? Even Ski Jumping FFS where presumably you could decide who ever flew the furthest without landing on his arse was the winner without any thought as to How Pretty it was (I am fairly certain that the standard landing technique used by Ski Jumpers now used to be marked down as un-stylish but was still adopted as the extra distance gained, without falling on your arse, outweighed Style! Telemark or something)

Anyway it is unlikely that you will agree with me so I'll leave it there.....

[Pogle]

I think this is very unfair on them. They are not so bad that they would embarass us, it's a home games so minimal funding required (they've paid for all training and other expenses themselves anyway, so it's not like the BOA/Lottery got a bad investment).

Mean, mean, mean. I hope we haven't heard the last of this.

WZS

[Arturo Bassick]

I dont think there should be a barrier to entry where there are no other candidates.
I dont give a tulip if they do embarrass us. If they are the best we have got then they should go.
Any sport.
We should support their effort even if they are crap.

Only where we have too many candidates should there be any need to qualify.

[d000hg]

Is this the right place/time to question if rhythmic gymnastics is a sport in the first place?

Or any other form of gymnastics, or any activity where the winning/best is decided by subjective opinion rather than objective fact.

So boxing is also not a sport? Or any martial art - they all rely on someone to do the scoring. Even football, rugby and cricket rely on a subjective referee, whose judgement often determines who wins.

All these sports have objective scoring systems, it is NOT a judge just deciding how much they like it. Small margins of error are accounted for by having multiple judges.

[d000hg]

They are not so bad that they would embarass us

Based on what? Don't you agree a "pass mark" is reasonable - and if so that it should be upheld? Hundreds of hopeful athletes train very hard and fail to make the squad in their field, just because you paid for your own training doesn't change it.

[AtW]

But anything where you have to rely on someone else to tell you who has won is not sport.

It's a sport for us to see how far would you get before getting banned yet we rely on someone else's view for it to happen

[EricBartlett]

Is this the right place/time to question if rhythmic gymnastics is a sport in the first place?

Or any other form of gymnastics, or any activity where the winning/best is decided by subjective opinion rather than objective fact.

Don't get me wrong - gymnasts of all types are obviously fit, dedicated and all that good stuff.
But anything where you have to rely on someone else to tell you who has won is not sport.

Who did it fastest, threw it furthest, hit the target more, scored more etc etc.

[TimberWolf]

If New Labour were still in power those girls would be going to the Olympics. Together with 90% of the population, 80% of whom would get a Gold**.

[Zippy]

I think this is very unfair on them. They are not so bad that they would embarass us, it's a home games so minimal funding required (they've paid for all training and other expenses themselves anyway, so it's not like the BOA/Lottery got a bad investment).

Mean, mean, mean. I hope we haven't heard the last of this.

[d000hg]

AFAIK countries can select and put forward who ever they like
It was the British Olymic Assosiation which decided that these girls weren't good enough to compete for Britain which means there will be no British entry for that event

Seems fair enough then. Tough for the girls but that's competitive sport...

[chef]

How do those African countries get swimmers competing who have never swum the distance they compete in, etc?

their countries don't set a benchmark that they must qualify for in order to be able to go, they are simply sent because they want to and their country can afford to send them/is interested in having them represented in the sport

[AtW]

Like Olga Korbut, she became an instructor but was renowned for being a really pushy bitch.

For each successful Korbut there were dozens if not hundreds of very badly injuried young girls who were pushed too far in the interest of Soviet state. Think about 14-15 year old girl being paralised for life - that's gymnastics.

[BrilloPad]

"Instead, the gymnasts are victims of the BOA's promise that every British athlete stepping into an Olympic arena this summer will be delivering both a competitive performance and a lasting legacy for their sport.

Sadly for the rhythmic gymnasts, they are left with neither. This remains a sport with no money, few prospects and plenty to cry about. That Britain's Olympic ideals have been upheld will be of scant consolation now."

I thought the British Olympic ideals were to make as much money as possible?

[Spacecadet]

How do those African countries get swimmers competing who have never swum the distance they compete in, etc?

AFAIK countries can select and put forward who ever they like
It was the British Olymic Assosiation which decided that these girls weren't good enough to compete for Britain which means there will be no British entry for that event

[Paddy]

Good, maybe they'll live longer - gymnastics is nice show but horrific injuries (paralised kids) are the price paid in Russia, Romania, China and other countries that push hard without regard to child's safety. Even those of them who win feel real bad when they are 35+ - stressing body like this incurs a very heavy long term price, and if they don't win on one Olympics they'll be too old for next one.

Like Olga Korbut, she became an instructor but was renowned for being a really pushy bitch.

She has her own website now...

Olympic Gymnast Olga Korbut - Official Website