Reply to: ID Cards: sh1ts and giggles

Looks like people really are that stupid

Just had a look at the 'Have Your Say' section of the BBC webtulipe on ID cards. The very first comment is as follows:

I have no problem whatsoever carrying an ID card, and believe that the only people concerned about an 'intrusion' of their civil rights must have something to hide. However, I strongly resent having to pay for it. I pay for a passport, because I choose to travel overseas. I pay for a driving licence because I choose to drive. I pay for a TV licence because I choose to watch TV. Why should I be forced to give the government yet more of my hard earned money on something that's their idea? By all means introduce ID cards if they think they'll help against terrorism (which I doubt anyway), but don't insult your public by asking for money in return.

Clare Younger, Northfleet, England

Clare Younger is clearly a highly confused person who thinks that as well as innocent people having nothing to fear (like the Birmingham Six presumably), money to pay for government projects is just plucked off a magic money tree in the Gordon Brown's back garden.

Given that the average bod seems to be like minded, it makes you wonder why the government doesn't just say, "okay then, the cards will be free". What opposition there is from the great unwashed would just evaporate as they are too stupid to realise what the subsequent tax increases are for.

Re: ID cards

You don't think that's really Vitamin K they inject into new born babies ankles do you?

You're not telling me it's actually Special K are you?

ID cards

ID cards are inevitable because the core thing about them is not about card, but about biometric database that will be created anyway as USA won't let people travel without Visa (and getting USA visa is worse than having anal probe). So database will be created anyway and biometric readers will be deployed on UK's borders.

Give more time and more Govts will do the same, this will result in drop in prices on key cost that can't be avoided -- portable hardware readers. This will be the time when the police and others will adopt them.

Re: A surveillance society

Assuming we aren't already that is. After all, who'd know?

You don't think that's really Vitamin K they inject into new born babies ankles do you?

Re: A surveillance society

Just make sure you get an adult to help you pin it on. You mark my words, it won't be long until we are all chipped at birth, in order to protect our freedom of course.

Assuming we aren't already that is. After all, who'd know?

I can feel a conspiracy theory coming on.

Re: A surveillance society

Tony, must I wear my ID badge at all times or will a blue Peter badge suffice?

Re: A surveillance society

Listen... pause... we have worked very hard to combat the threats to our society... wipes forehead.

I am now proud to ... beaming smile ... say that our Id cards will cure cancer.

The Tories never managed that.

Re: A surveillance society

So what are identity cards for this week? It seems to change quite regularly as each reason is debunked. A classic solution in search of a problem situation. I think, so far, we've had:

1. Combating international terrorism
2. Reducing bogus asylum claims
3. Benefit entitlement card
4. Protection against identity theft
5. Combating international crime

Any others? I keep expecting TB to say next that it will help develop a cure for cancer.

Re: A surveillance society

This is just like scribbling your pin on your switch card.

All this information will be held in a government database whereas the id card only holds the name, address and biometric data.

Defending ID cards on the BBC Today programme, Mr Clarke said: "They will allow people to identify themselves and ensure that the data that is held about them is data held about them and not someone else.

Re: A surveillance society

Saw Charles Clarke laying out the proposals in the House earlier on. Someone did ask him if it was really necessary to have so many categories of information and he just said "yes".

His main thrust was that all this information is out there anyway and all he is proposing to do is to gather it altogether in one place in order to ensure that it can be more easily protected from international organised crime (hey, don't bash me, that's the nonsense he was spouting). He assured the House that the existing legal framework was more than adequate to ensure your data was being safely looked after and that your privacy would not be intruded upon.

It was a good "nothing controversial here" performance and half the opposition benches seemed to be nodding it along as well.

Re: A surveillance society

Ehat is the point of

"A personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
47. A password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code;
48. Questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry"

Surely this info should be authenticated at the back end rather than be held on the card itself. So somebody susses out how to crack the card and they instantly have access to the pin and security questions/answers. This is just like scribbling your pin on your switch card.

Re: A surveillance society

I'll get my coat.

You won't need it, you won't be in the cell for long......

Re: A surveillance society

ZitM,

'kin hell, anyone would think we lived in a police state.



oops.




I'll get my coat.

Re: A surveillance society

The plastic card is only one small part of a much larger scheme. The government is planning to establish a vast, complex and far-reaching system that will involve an unprecedented use of personal information.

Clause 1 and Schedule 1 of the Bill sets out more than fifty categories of information required for the register (subject to change by regulation):

1.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Name
2.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Other previous names or aliases;
3.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Date and place of birth and, if the person has died, the date of death;
4.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Address
5.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Previous addresses in the United Kingdom and elsewhere;
6.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Times of residency at different places in the United Kingdom or elsewhere;
7.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Current residential status;
8.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Residential statuses previously held;
9.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Information about numbers allocated to the applicant for identification purposes and about the documents to which they relate;
10.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Information about occasions on which recorded information in the Register has been provided to any person;
11.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Information recorded in the Register on request.
12.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Photograph
13.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Fingerprints
14.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp “Other” biometrics (iris recognition);
15.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Signature
16.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Nationality;
17.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom; and
18.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Where entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave.
19.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp National Identity Registration Number;
20.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any ID card that has been issued;
21.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp National Insurance number;
22.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any relevant immigration document;
23.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any United Kingdom passport (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971 (c. 77)) that has been issued;
24.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any passport issued by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation;
25.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any document that can be used (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
26.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any identity card issued by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom;
27.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Any reference number allocated by the Secretary of State in connection with an application made for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom;
28.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any work permit (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971);
29.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Any driver number connected to a driving licence;
30.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The number of any designated document which is held by the applicant that is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs;
31.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
32.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The date of every application for registration;
33.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The date of every application for a modification of the contents of his entry;
34.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The date of every application confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes);
35.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The reason for any omission from the information recorded in his entry;
36.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued;
37.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not;
38.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of every person who has countersigned an application for an ID card or a designated document;
39.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of every notification given by the applicant for the purposes of regulations under section 13(1) (lost, stolen and damaged ID cards etc.);
40.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of every requirement by the Secretary of State for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to the applicant.
41.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of entry in the Register or for the issue of an ID card;
42.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without change;
43.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application;
44.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained (otherwise than in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b)) for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register;
45.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of every notification given by that individual for the purposes of section 12.
46.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp A personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
47.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp A password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code;
48.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
49.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual’s entry has been provided to a person;
50.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion;
51.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.

The world according to Blair ( thats Eric not Tony)

Re: This should be a no brainer

Mr Blair is arguing against 14 professors and 60 people worldwide with experience of identity card schemes

Apparently the counter argument by HMG is that the difference between HMG's figures and the LSE's figures was money "that was going to be spent anyway" [on biometric passports]. Conveniently forgetting that you don't have to have a passport.