Reply to: BBC filming Tony Blair obituary

[xoggoth]

As far as Blair is concerned, I think an unjustified invasion of a country that resulted in 10s of thousands of extra deaths to no purpose whatsover (with many more to come, as Iraq is now falling apart to almost nobody else's surprise) makes consideration of extra funding for schools' IT etc rather irrelevant. The only good he did that even begins to counteract that was the progress in NI.

One could probably make a long plus list for Adolph, like curing rampant inflation, inspiring youngsters etc. but nobody ever does.

PS Plus feeding nice little mice with bread obviously.

[DodgyAgent]

DA peddles same type of tulip I heard back on Soviet school,

[centurian]

50 Blair achievements

Making achievements is easy - any idiot can do it

It's paying for them thats the hard part.

[hyperD]

I do admire the huge effort you chaps put into justifying your loathings.

Thanks xogg!

[TimberWolf]

I do admire the huge effort you chaps put into justifying your loathings.

[xoggoth]

I do admire the huge effort you chaps put into justifying your loathings.

[darmstadt]

Continued...

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11. The Poll Tax! Regardless of how you view this in theory, apart from its regressive nature, it quite plainly was unworkable. They knew that it was going to be ridiculously expensive to collect, that there was overwhelming opposition to it (it ruined the 1991 census) and was going to mean massive non-payment and it was responsible for some of the worst rioting ever seen in central London but they pressed ahead anyway. Another U-turn inevitably came!

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12. The myth of the strong leader. This was a total invention of the press. Thatcher's only strength (if you could call it that) was that she had no principles at all! She was an anti-smoking campaigner who ended up on the payroll of British American Tobacco. She had to do a U-turn on her 'flagship' economic policy after 2 years because she had wrecked the economy (see point 3) (This was just one year after her famous speech in 1980 where she assured the party faithful she was going to stick to monetarist policies-"You turn if you want to...the lady's not for turning"-yeah right!!). The Poll Tax was a disaster which she had to U-turn on (but too late to save her from being stabbed in the back!). She went to Europe saying she was against federalism but signed its most federalist law (the Single European Act in 1986). She later claimed she was tricked on this. Did she even know what she was doing? Some strong leader that is! And to top it all off, even in departure she was weak. "I fight on, I fight to win" she said in her pompous way before quietly resigning hours later when confronted by Ministers like Geoffrey Howe!!! It was the final U-turn from a weak puppet leader whose only qualities (as far as the Tories were concerned) were she did what she was told.

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13. Degradation of the social professions. Social workers were virtually denounced as criminals! Teachers were so derided and there pay so eroded it barely survived as a profession and things like mental health, just loose them out on the streets, Thatcher's government didnt care what they did!

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14. Victorian Values. Yes before its Back to Basics successor under Major, Thatcher promised to take us back to Victorian morality and she nearly succeeded. We were not far away from child labour and seething slums of humanity and disease. I reckon Thatcher needed one more term for that!! She also took care to defend to the hilt her countless Ministers who were caught with their trousers down or hands in the till or both in some cases! Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer (3 times), Jonathon Aitkin (twice)... etc. etc. the list goes on.

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15. "There is no such thing as society". Did Thatcher foresee the 'playstation' generation? Selfishness as a virtue seemed to sum up her warped sense of morality to me.

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16. Over-privatisation and overt corruption. Oh the beauty of it, a totally dominant monopoly privatised at a discount price to big business (lots of it foreign owned) so they can cream off profits to their hearts content. Who can do without Water, Gas, Electricity? We can charge what we like! Plus we get the bonus of nice jobs on more Quangos OfWat, OfGas, Of-with taxpayers cash we go. With Ministers interchanging between the boardrooms of the newly privatised companies and the regulating boards on massive salaries. Even husband and wife teams, remember Mr and Mrs Howe, one a consultant with a privatised firm, his wife the regulator. Anyone for insider dealing calls out Mrs Archer! Oh jolly good show! Even industries that plainly werent feasible for privatisation like bus and rail, go for it, it wont hurt. And what shall we do with the money my dear? Well my son Mark has shares in a nice defence firm! Rather, still some left over for a nice reduction in the top rate of income tax as well.

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17. Even public service broadcasting couldnt escape. Relentless bullying of the BBC was started by Thatcher, she took this to a new level with Tebbit and various other ministers calling it the Bolshevic Broadcasting Company because it failed to replicate Sun editorial lines in its news broadcasts. In one of her last acts she even managed to wreck Channel 4' s public service commitment by changing its funding situation from one of subscription from ITV who sold its advertising space to total dependence on advertising.

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18. The divisiveness of the North-South divide in wealth. Look at the political map and you can still see where the Conservatives win most of their seats in the South East because of this.

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19. Regular winter crises in the NHS became the norm. The Tories argued these were inevitable because we couldnt afford to fund the NHS properly. There are no winter crises anymore!

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20. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher. This is probably the most surprising statistic of the lot when you consider the Tories so called strong standing on law and order. It just goes to demonstrate why we need a history lesson about Thatcher and not the lies printed in the right wing owned press.

[darmstadt]

Hey Alf, to be totally fair and impartial why don't you also post a list of Maggie Thatcher's 50 greatest achievements?

Dunno who wrote this, found it in an old .txt file:

1. As Education secretary under Edward Heath in a foretaste of what is to come, stops free milk for school children. No chance of the widely praised 'free fruit' scheme ever being Tory policy! She later deregulates school meals so all they have on the menu is burger and chips! The health of the nation was not something Thatcher thought any of her concern.

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2. Shamelessly uses the 'race card' to get elected PM in 1979! (Though I wont claim her to be the first Tory leader to use this and certainly not the last!) "We are being flooded!" she asserts despite figures showing emigration higher than immigration and immigration at its lowest post-war level. Her idols are Keith Joseph (who ruined his own chance of being leader with a demon eyed rant on TV about sterilising the poor (I jest not!!)) and Enoch Powell (the 'intellectual' racist). She promotes Keith 'Eugenics' Joseph to Education Minister!

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3. Monetarism! Disastrous policy of trying to control money supply. In the first of her two recessions (the worst since the 1930's), one fifth of our industrial base is wiped out and unemployment is more than doubled, there are summer riots in every inner-city in the country. Not bad for her first 2 years in office! In the first of many U-turns (see point on 'myth of strong leader'), she abandons monetarism. Polls predict Labour landslide and despite the resolute support of the press, she is the most unpopular PM on record. How could she possibly get out of this one?

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4. The Falklands! In a gross piece of incompetence (or was it deliberate?) fails to avert the Falklands crisis by ignoring intelligence on the Argentine preparation for invasion in early 1982. Indeed she seems to positively encourage it by proposing scrapping the only warship we have there and having her defence secretary Nicholas Ridley openly say we didn't want the Falklands, thereby giving the impression we are not bothered about the islands! In 1978 when faced with the same intelligence, the Labour government quietly averts a war through diplomatic channels by threatening to send a taskforce. It's the classic tale, to divert attention from disastrous economic policies at home a crooked leader engages in a foreign war (except I'm not talking about Galtieri!). Perhaps Thatcher was getting advise from some of the brutal dictatorships she helped prop up in South America, "Would you like some more tea Mr Pinochet?". Number of British soldiers killed, 278, Argentines, 3000+. Blood on her hands anyone?

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5. Destruction of local democracy. The beauty of not having a written constitution, having the backing of the press, having a massive majority in parliament (despite only getting 42% of the vote, less than 1 in 3 of the electorate) and having a permanent inbuilt Tory hereditory second chamber is that Tory PMs can do whatever they like. If you dont like local democracy because they vote for someone else, just abolish it like Thatcher did and centralise everything from Whitehall and unelected Quangos who you carefully select. (Yes, Thatcher invented Quasi Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisations.) The popular GLC was scrapped despite over 80% of Londoners being opposed. Londoners have to wait over 13 years before getting an assembly back and electing Livingstone as its leader once again.

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6. Politicising the civil service. See point about QUANGOs above. Also if you dont like what statistics the statistics office is publishing, make sure you stop them collecting the statistics and stop them publishing them. The figures that were published on individual wealth and earnings each year were abolished in this way. The Office for National Statistics like the Bank of England was made independent by this Labour government and yes they have started publishing the wealth and earnings figures again.

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7. Regressive Taxation. Under Thatcher VAT increased from 8% to 17.5% and was also levied on utility bills for the first time as well. What she gave the rich in income tax cuts she took from the poor in indirect taxation. The proportion of GDP spent by the government under Thatcher stayed fairly static at around 40%. The difference was that rather than spend it on the NHS, housing or education she spent the money on defence, a massive expansion of the civil service (see point 6), paying the huge unemployment bill, and rising police salaries to keep them loyal in the face of massive civil unrest. The best part of all was that she shifted the burden of payment for all this onto the poor from the rich.

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8. The widening gap between rich and poor. This might not be such a bad thing if the gap had not been so massive in the first place. How can the richest 50% owning 97% of the wealth be fair? This was her starting position she moved wealth almost exclusively to the richest 10% at the expense of the poorest 50%.

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9. Spend, spend, spend! Abolishing credit controls seemed such a good idea, the economy booms on a consumer spending bubble....cue second crippling recession. Thanks Margaret! Not to mention the misery caused to millions of people suckered into debts and negative equity! Spend, spend, spend also applied to government borrowing which despite claims of financial prudence increased massively under Thatcher to fund income tax cuts for the rich.

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10. Homelessness for the young. Why should homelessness be the preserve of ageing tramps who remember the 1930's. No! Thatcher thought the opportunities should be open to all. Young beggars on the streets were Thatcher's invention. The legacy of massive youth unemployment and crime no-go areas for the police are still being fought today. There is a whole generation of people where crime and welfare culture was their only way of surviving and it became their mindset.

tbc...(apparently more than 10000 characters!)

[OwlHoot]

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

I wouldn't call that an achievement. Three and four years olds should be out playing in the garden on their own, or better still in the woods, preferably getting lost and bewildered for a while.

If necessity is the mother of invention then the father is solitude, and you won't find any of that with kids packed off to school so young, being "socialised" like a colony of ants.

[AtW]

Let us remember that none of these would have been possible had not Thatcher got rid of the Trade Unions and liberated the nationalised Industries.

DA peddles same type of tulip I heard back on Soviet school, only it was all thanks to Lenin plus whoever was the Communist Party's Dead Leader at the time.

[OwlHoot]

Hey Alf, to be totally fair and impartial why don't you also post a list of Maggie Thatcher's 50 greatest achievements?

[DodgyAgent]

50 Blair achievements

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
A legacy of the previous Tory government against which vast amounts of money were borrowed thus leaving the UK economy where it is now

2. Low mortgage rates.
Causing a property bubble leading to the situation we have now with thouisands of perople in negative equity

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
A good job prevention policy putting more people into welfare dependency and enhancing a welfare industry that funnily enough votes labour

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
As a result of the disasters of socialism running all the key services for the poor there needed to be more police

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
Thanks to the free enterprise of the private sector creating vast numbers of jobs

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
Thanks to the private sector

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
By dumbing down exams

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
Yep more socialists given jobs and protected yet still churning out more for the underclass

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
Thanks to borrowing of vast amounts of money to create non jobs in the public sector

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
In other words kept more dictators in power at the expense of our own poor

11. 85,000 more nurses.
Working far less hours, working for a growing population and not even doing their jobs properly

12. 32,000 more doctors.
The same for nurses

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
Was it one or was it two?

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
Did not devolve any power to England

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
As above

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
Paid for by the rest of us and ensuring even more jobs go abroad

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
"shoot yourself"

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
Charities are needed to patch up the huge failings by the socialist run public services

19. Restored city-wide government to London.
Good or bad thing?

20. Record number of students in higher education.
When most of them should be working/learning a trade

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
Thanks to the omnipotence of the nanny state

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
Another patch up for the failings of the state

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
Another waste of money

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
Having stripped people of their pensions in the first place

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
More tax

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
Jury is out on this

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
None of who can be sacked and therefore held to account and thus delivering an ever shabbier quality of education.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
Those that are left. Discouraging employment and shoving up UK costs of labour.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
A craven piece of statistical manipulation that takes no account of ageing population.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
Having been put there in the first place by socialist policies

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
I can pay for my own children thank you. Again this is an example of the intrusion of the nanny state once again throwing money in order to patch up its failings

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
Okay there's one

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
More waste of tax payers money - you can take the people out of a slum but you cant take the slum out of people.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
By cancelling operations

35. Banned fox hunting.
Cheap votes

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
OK

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
They are all blind and deaf anyway

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
Fair dos

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
Fair dos

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
It should be the young that are encouraged to travel

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
Again vast amounts of money spent on patching up the failings of socialism

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
More control from the nanny state - again patching up the failings of the public services

43. Free eye test for over 60s.
Fair enough

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
Whilst killing off the incentives to employ people

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
OK

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
More dictators kept in power

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
Would have happened anyway

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
So why is it so high now?

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
Maybe

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.
To chuck at the teachers

Let us remember that none of these would have been possible had not Thatcher got rid of the Trade Unions and liberated the nationalised Industries.
What is interesting about this legacy was that these people simply took money and poured it into the welfare state.. some of it was going to work but by and large these people squandered it leaving the country once again in an economic shambles. I will add that the good things were down to private enterprise.

The only good thing Blair did was to rid the world of that Tyrant Saddam Hussein. I would argue that had the Iraq war not happened many a dictator including Gadaffi would be sleeping much more comfortably right now.

[minestrone]

That list is comedy.

[Paddy]

FTFY

1. Longest period of massaged inflation figures since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates but no-one can afford to buy.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52 and priced UK manufacturing out of the global economy.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales to fill in forms.

5. Cut overall reported crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools but no skills.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18 with easier than ever exams.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled to pay for non degrees.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever in the public sector.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries that are getting richer than us.

11. 85,000 more nurses to fill in forms.

12. 32,000 more doctors to fill in forms.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards to fill in forms.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Gravy train.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Gravy train.

16. Result! Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice replacing common sense.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year to pay for their employees.

19. Restored city-wide government to London and added layers of bureaucrats.

20. Record number of students in higher education as no jobs.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997 increasing state dependency.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres that no-one has heard of.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission to do something, possibly?

24. Result! £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions instead of focusing on the economy.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland Gravy train.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants to collect knives.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday further pricing the UK out of the Global Economy.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty - yeah right!

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty until they are forced to get student loans.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents for fags & booze.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships - whoopee.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard - where, India?

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997 - in your dreams.

35. Banned fox hunting except for those that still happen.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution achieved by the private sector.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s but nothing but repeats to watch.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals as everything has already been tested.

39. Result! Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s that happen to live near public transport.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work in the public sector.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started that will make a very small dent in their student loans.

43. Free eye test for over 60s but expensive spectacles.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships to 3.

45. Result! Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled and squandered

47. Result! Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent by making them all students.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds so their parents don't have to bother teaching them the basics.

50. Result! Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

Not to mention council tax up 600%

Record number of mosques built

PFI costing us all a fortune for 100 years

Blair is a cu$t

[ctdctd]

FTFY

50 Blair achievements

1. Longest period of massaged inflation figures since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates but no-one can afford to buy.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52 and priced UK manufacturing out of the global economy.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales to fill in forms.

5. Cut overall reported crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools but no skills.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18 with easier than ever exams.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled to pay for non degrees.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever in the public sector.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries that are getting richer than us.

11. 85,000 more nurses to fill in forms.

12. 32,000 more doctors to fill in forms.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards to fill in forms.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Gravy train.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Gravy train.

16. Result! Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice replacing common sense.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year to pay for their employees.

19. Restored city-wide government to London and added layers of bureaucrats.

20. Record number of students in higher education as no jobs.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997 increasing state dependency.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres that no-one has heard of.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission to do something, possibly?

24. Result! £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions instead of focusing on the economy.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland Gravy train.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants to collect knives.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday further pricing the UK out of the Global Economy.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty - yeah right!

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty until they are forced to get student loans.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents for fags & booze.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships - whoopee.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard - where, India?

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997 - in your dreams.

35. Banned fox hunting except for those that still happen.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution achieved by the private sector.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s but nothing but repeats to watch.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals as everything has already been tested.

39. Result! Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s that happen to live near public transport.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work in the public sector.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started that will make a very small dent in their student loans.

43. Free eye test for over 60s but expensive spectacles.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships to 3.

45. Result! Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled and squandered

47. Result! Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent by making them all students.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds so their parents don't have to bother teaching them the basics.

50. Result! Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.