Reply to: Strikers are stealing from their own children

[BlasterBates]

The average figure of £5000 for public pensions is a ridiculous figure, it includes everyone including anyone working for a few months or part time. No point negotiating with a Union that makes nonsenical statements.

The fact is you will find no-one who has worked 40 years fulltime in the public sector with a pension of £5000.

I worked 2 years for the first co I got and I estimate to get no more than £100 pension per year for my service. The figure of £5000 including everyone however little they contributed just demonstrates how high a full pension must be.

Just gives an idea of how divorced from reality Union leaders are.

Good article here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...ey-used-to-be/

I like this

At Birmingham Women's Hospital, theatre nurse and Unison president, Eleanor Smith has offered a classic self-defeating defence of her strike action. "I came into the public sector not for great wages…" she said. Now what would you expect to follow that opening: "…but to serve the community", or "…to provide care that is free at the point of use"?

No, what Ms Smith said was that she did not enter the public sector for great wages "…but for a pension." And

My sister is a theatre nurse so I know what pension they can get, and believe me it's generous.

[TinTrump]

Surely any 'subsidy to the private sector' is provided from money raised in taxes or NI contributions from income generated by the private sector, and is therefore nothing other than what the Dutch would call a 'cigar out of your own box'.

Well put. This is what friends of mine in the public sector fail to recognise.

[TheFaQQer]

The average public sector pensioner gets a pension of £5,600 (median). In the half of people below that median, for example the average pension of a woman who worked for local authority is £2,600 pa

Average public sector pension is £5600.

If Danny Alexander MP (age 39) gets voted out at the next election and never works again, his MPs pension (first elected 2005) will be £23k

[TheFaQQer]

They voted for their representatives who then formed a government. If they wanted something else, they should have voted for other representatives. They could have had Gordon again.

The electorate voted for a given politician on the basis of the policies advocated in their manifesto. For example, some voted Lib Dem because there was a solemn promise that they would vote against any plans to increase tuition fees for students.

In the end, since no-one won the election, the coalition agreement was forged, making a set of policies that no-one actually voted for. No-one voted for the set of policies which this government is implementing - not even the members of the government themselves.

[Ignis Fatuus]

That's a stupid argument and you know it.

Private sector companies have been changing their pension agreements, other benefits and contractual terms for years.

The public sector can do the same and in fact they have done. I have talked in the past to two of my sister-in-laws, both nurses, and they have had changes in the way they can take time off implemented.

The public sector strikers are simply striking to prevent changes to their contracts just like tube workers have done and firefighters in the past.

It is not a stupid argument. You may disagree with it; that IMHO does not make it stupid.

I did not say that they weren't legally or practically free to change the contract, I said not morally free.

The same might be said for private companies, whether they have done so or not.

[SueEllen]

Changing the board of directors of an employer does not allow it to invalidate all employment contracts.

This government is free to offer what contracts it pleases to potential new employees; it is not morally free to break existing contracts.

That's a stupid argument and you know it.

Private sector companies have been changing their pension agreements, other benefits and contractual terms for years.

The public sector can do the same and in fact they have done. I have talked in the past to two of my sister-in-laws, both nurses, and they have had changes in the way they can take time off implemented.

The public sector strikers are simply striking to prevent changes to their contracts just like tube workers have done and firefighters in the past.

[BlasterBates]

Low paid public sector workers won't be disadvantaged (under £15000), they will not have to pay increased contributions. The argument that the reforms hit the low paid is total nonsense.

The fact is the average salary in the public sector is higher than in the private sector, and in the end if the pensions aren't cut it's not the wealthy bankers that will fund their pensions, it's average earning workers in the private sector and young people who'll foot the bill.

Those most affected and hence vocal are the above average earners. The public sector "well to do". Of course after the cuts they could go into the private sector, but they won't because they won't want to give up their privileges.

[Mich the Tester]

The subsidy is to the private sector here – paid for by state sector employees.

Surely any 'subsidy to the private sector' is provided from money raised in taxes or NI contributions from income generated by the private sector, and is therefore nothing other than what the Dutch would call a 'cigar out of your own box'.

[aussielong]

I found out that the Scottish teachers pension pot is 24 billion in the red, about 20% of the Scottish GDP and about 500,000 for each teacher, I would assume that is pretty much the same across the country, scary figures.

How many years do you have to do to get a full salary pension? Surely you'd have to have done a full career for a decent pension? Otherwise everybody would be getting into it near retirement age.

[Moscow Mule]

No cuts = NO JOBS.

I have no wish to live in a slightly wetter, colder, uglier Argentina thank you very much.

[TimberWolf]

Is that it then? Are they back to work for a bit now?

You can bet whoever's needed for the Olympics next year will be showered with cash and bribes and gongs. And I bet they are sitting smug in this knowledge too.

[Scrag Meister]

THUNDERDOME, BARTER TOWN Here we come.

Maybe Mad Max was future fact not fiction.

[BlasterBates]

Proposed increase in pension contributions that triggered the strike: 2.8bn

Amount of tax Tamara Ecclestone's dad saves by using an offshore trust controlled by his wife : £2bn (as opposed to Philip Green, whio gains around £300m/year by the same dodge)

Cost of proposed top-down NHS re-organisation: £2bn.

Cost of Afghanistan campaign: £4.5bn / year

2 x aircraft carriers (aircraft optional): £6.2bn

Amount raised by a 'Tobin' tax at 0.05%: c £20bn

Cost to Government of planned cuts to corporation tax: £1bn / year by 2014.

Amount retrieved from Swiss tax evader amnesty (all offences waived) £5bn, Estimated amount still illegally sheltered: £20bn

No money ?

That's good but there's 1.1 trillion debt, and growing at 130 billion a year. If we add up your suggestions and they were to work, which some wouldn't, it still wouldn't make much difference. One thing I can guarantee you is that if Labour get in there won't be any change. It's the socialists in Greece and Spain who put through eye watering austerity budgets, far far more exrteme than anything you've seen in the UK.

[Mich the Tester]

Changing the board of directors of an employer does not allow it to invalidate all employment contracts.

This government is free to offer what contracts it pleases to potential new employees; it is not morally free to break existing contracts.

No, but going bust and setting up a new business would. Yes, it's unfair, and unpleasant, but it's the result of successive governments failing to tackle the issue. It has to be done.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Their employer is HM government. The public complained by means of the vote, and put in place a government that they felt would tackle their concerns; now that government are attempting to do so.

Changing the board of directors of an employer does not allow it to invalidate all employment contracts.

This government is free to offer what contracts it pleases to potential new employees; it is not morally free to break existing contracts.