Reply to: More market panic about Greece

[Paddy]

I don't know, but if it was, wouldn't they just say it was from information fiddled/received from the Greeks?

Goldman admits helping Greece 'fiddle books' to conceal public debt - Telegraph

Goldman admits helping Greece 'fiddle books' to conceal public debt

Mr Corrigan replied: "Goldman was by no means the only bank involved in the transactions."

Greece failed to meet the criteria for joining the single currency in 1999 due to its deficits but was admitted in 2001, after claiming to have hit targets of reducing its budget deficit to less than 3pc of GDP and national debt below 60pc of GDP. The country is now in crisis with a near-13pc deficit and public debt of 113pc.

[darrenb]

what about us?

A lot of abstract economic discussion here, but what does it all mean to Johnny Contractor in the street? When Greece finally hits the rocks and the rest of southern Europe follows, how will it affect the German market?

I mean, how bad could it be? Will all my savings in Berliner Sparkasse suddenly be converted to drachmas and smarties?

Or will it just mean no jobs for the next five years? Been there, done that, doesn't scare me.

But could it get so bad here in Germany that expats will be swimming back to the half-sunk ship in the northwest? Presumably that would justify everything sasguru has ever said?

[scooterscot]

Maybe the peeps are busy stocking up on AK-47s and bullets.

Greece is slipping into the abyss - Telegraph

And the difference between that and merders in south west london. Shootings, teen mother shot as she held her baby Riots, burning buildings, social unrest, some parts of London dream of Greece. True.

[PAH]

They're getting barely a wimper these days.

Maybe the peeps are busy stocking up on AK-47s and bullets.

Greece is slipping into the abyss - Telegraph

People shoot up on the street and accost anyone foolish enough to stray through the area for money. And all of this takes place a short walk from the Acropolis.

Many friends have headed to the suburbs – but they aren’t as safe as they were. Last week, an elderly couple in a decent neighbourhood were held hostage in their home by men carrying AK-47 assault rifles. They took their cash and credit cards and then stole the couple’s car.

[BlasterBates]

The Greeks can never grow their economy enough to pay the public sector workers and the public sector pensions. That's what got them into the s#it in the first place, until they fix that nothing is going to work.

I think the Greeks want to stay in the Euro, blame Europe for the changes to the public sector pay and pensions.
Or as you say devalue and come back in, but that might leave them with an inflation problem when they devalue.

I think they will sort it out, but it will be a slow, bad headline by bad headline process.

Absolutely Papandeaou is in his element, one austerity package after another, in the past if they tried to shave half-precent off public pensions there's be riots, now Papandreou is slashing pay and pensions by about 20%. Just goes to show once you start shoving these austerity measures down peoples throat, eventually they swallow. They're getting barely a wimper these days.

[doodab]

Wasn't it Goldmann Sachs who created the report? They could probably afford to pay of the Greek debt. Sorted.

I think they created some sort of currency swap deal that let the Greeks hide the magnitude of their malaise, although it was all "completely legal under EU rules at the time" apparently.

[Doggy Styles]

Wasn't it Goldmann Sachs who created the report? They could probably afford to pay of the Greek debt. Sorted.

I don't know, but if it was, wouldn't they just say it was from information fiddled/received from the Greeks?

[Arturo Bassick]

What would the punishment be, a big fine to add to their debt!

Wasn't it Goldmann Sachs who created the report? They could probably afford to pay of the Greek debt. Sorted.

[Mich the Tester]

Is anybody going to get a massive multi million euro bonus for the total fabrication of the Greek economy that allowed them entrance in the first place?

Yes.

[Doggy Styles]

Is anybody going to face prosecution for the total fabrication of the Greek economy that allowed them entrance in the first place?

What would the punishment be, a big fine to add to their debt!

[Mich the Tester]

Is anybody going to face prosecution for the total fabrication of the Greek economy that allowed them entrance in the first place?

Just a wild guess; no.

[DimPrawn]

Might help if the greek public paid a bit of tax from time to time.

Says the man who pissed off abroad to enjoy low tax rates.

Talk about Socialists....I think we should rename you Blair II.

[Arturo Bassick]

Is anybody going to face prosecution for the total fabrication of the Greek economy that allowed them entrance in the first place?

[snaw]

The Greeks can never grow their economy enough to pay the public sector workers and the public sector pensions. That's what got them into the s#it in the first place, until they fix that nothing is going to work.

I think the Greeks want to stay in the Euro, blame Europe for the changes to the public sector pay and pensions.
Or as you say devalue and come back in, but that might leave them with an inflation problem when they devalue.

I think they will sort it out, but it will be a slow, bad headline by bad headline process.

Might help if the greek public paid a bit of tax from time to time.

[alreadypacked]

Greece's debt is about 330 billion. Why not use part of the EFSF fund (or whatever it's called) of 750 billion to just pay off their debts and then dump them out of the euro? The lenders get their money, Greece can devalue and start growing their economy based on tourism and cheap manufacturing. Seems obvious.

I know it's arguably immoral, and 'they should pay their way' etc, but arguably the Greek public have been shafted just as badly as the rest of us, if not worse.

Trouble is, would the speculators then hit other economies like Spain and Italy, which are much bigger?

The Greeks can never grow their economy enough to pay the public sector workers and the public sector pensions. That's what got them into the s#it in the first place, until they fix that nothing is going to work.

I think the Greeks want to stay in the Euro, blame Europe for the changes to the public sector pay and pensions.
Or as you say devalue and come back in, but that might leave them with an inflation problem when they devalue.

I think they will sort it out, but it will be a slow, bad headline by bad headline process.