Reply to: Show me the money

[ASB]

That's why they have all moved here.

Rubbish, I was in Warsaw a couple of weeks back and I distinctly remember there being a couple of dozen poles left.

The most common language in the local towns here in rural zummerset has changed from Brum into Polish. There a polish drop in centre opened in the local market town too.

[mcquiggd]

That's too much of a generalisation. It's not true for those I work with in Poland. Sure their salaries are rising but not at that sort of pace. Unfortunatley general cost of living is rising at that sort of pace.

That's why they have all moved here. Saw a documentary where the mayor of some city in Poland was planning on a tour of the UK trying to pursuade people to return there. The airlines have doubled the number of flights from the local airport to the UK.

[The Lone Gunman]

the Benes Invoicing Machine mobile telephone is red hot these days
Milan.

Don't leave it out in the sun so long mate.

[ASB]

Quite interesting read...

http://www.cio.com/archive/071506/20...cing_guide.pdf

I agree with Francko. In Eastern Europe salaries go up by 20-25% each year and you can't find good people for peanuts. Demand is roughly two times the existing supply...

Victor

That's too much of a generalisation. It's not true for those I work with in Poland. Sure their salaries are rising but not at that sort of pace. Unfortunatley general cost of living is rising at that sort of pace.

[milanbenes]

yep the market is hot at the moment

the Benes Invoicing Machine mobile telephone is red hot these days

Milan.

[Francko]

Quite interesting read...

http://www.cio.com/archive/071506/20...cing_guide.pdf

I agree with Francko. In Eastern Europe salaries go up by 20-25% each year and you can't find good people for peanuts. Demand is roughly two times the existing supply...

Victor

Unfortunately houses are going up 50-60% each year in Eastern Europe too. Same house in Kaunas two years ago now it's almost doubled.

[Viktor]

Global Outsourcing Guide

Quite interesting read...

http://www.cio.com/archive/071506/20...cing_guide.pdf

I agree with Francko. In Eastern Europe salaries go up by 20-25% each year and you can't find good people for peanuts. Demand is roughly two times the existing supply...

Victor

[pippo]

No, and I think you have been highly misinformed as I have two indian people in my office working for 70k plus benefits and they are thinking of going back to Bangalore as salary per cost of living they are better off there nowadays (and the visa was always quite easy to get, even in the year 2000 and yet the rates were different at that time). You are probably thinking of an average indian salary, not the ones for highly skilled and educated IT people, which are rather different from the standard ones.

I tend to agree with Francko.

There is an interesting article on the Financial Times today that talks about the current skills shortage in India and China. Especially in sectors like IT that require a certain level of numeracy skills. Brief summary below:

https://registration.ft.com/registra...0779e2340.html

I do not believe there is still a cost advantage in outsourcing things like software development to India. And if the cost advantage is still there then how long before it gets completely eaten out by the increasing recruitment and labour costs?

[mcquiggd]

But this would mean that to the client the cost is the same. Still doesn't make sense.

Thats a fixed budget - not a fixed percentage ... they may be given £400 a day, and wil tell prospective candiates its £280 a day.... thats how the c unts make a living off other people talents.....

[Francko]

Thats the rate the cheapie overseas worker charges is 100% lower (presumably meaning half price...?).. the agency has a fixed budget so creams the rest as profit.

But this would mean that to the client the cost is the same. Still doesn't make sense.

[Francko]

Best rate for IT staff is £ 300 p/m, don't you know that ?

No, and I think you have been highly misinformed as I have two indian people in my office working for 70k plus benefits and they are thinking of going back to Bangalore as salary per cost of living they are better off there nowadays (and the visa was always quite easy to get, even in the year 2000 and yet the rates were different at that time). You are probably thinking of an average indian salary, not the ones for highly skilled and educated IT people, which are rather different from the standard ones.

[TinTin]

No contradiction at all...

I thought the point was clearly made. Are you prepared to contract for £ 100 p/d ? Expect not. There are clearly some that are and this is considered a small fortune where they come from. We had someone here (ex-US FTV) asking how he would get Security Clearance ffs, some cheek that is. Decent jobs in India, don't make me laugh ! Best rate for IT staff is £ 300 p/m, don't you know that ?

[mcquiggd]

Thats the rate the cheapie overseas worker charges is 100% lower (presumably meaning half price...?).. the agency has a fixed budget so creams the rest as profit. The cheaper smiley happy person he put in front ofthe increasingly non-technical recruiters, the better.

Highway Emergency Services employed several indians who told HR they had work permits. The first week they joined, they wandered down to HR asking a secretary to sign their application for a work permit...


Look at what people are willing to do to get in to the UK, and apply the same thinking to them getting a compartively rich lifestyle here .. of course they buslltulip everyone they can.

[Francko]

There are indeed plenty of jobs on paper (or Jobswerve etc to be precise), however if one scratches the surface it isn't quite like that. The market is flooded with Indians, mostly code monkeys that have been sent here to help with outsourcing and managed to stay by turning into contracting and undercutting rates by as much as 100% . Agents have cottoned on to this and and put them forward at our expense knowing what huge profit margins can be made. 80% of them can't speak proper English, let alone write a decent piece of code, but who cares?

There's a bit of a contraddiction here. If agents make huge margins and they cut the rate of 100% this can mean that real cut is very low. How can the market be affect if only the money is switched from people to agencies? Not really a huge save for someone who cannot speak english. I think there are real reasons apart from those xenophobic fears. Besides, most of those people they only want to stay here for 6 months -1 year and then leave to find a decent job in India. No one is a fool anywhere and the ones who are good they will demand 3-4 times their salary after 6 months. The ones who are cheap, well, they are just as cheap as bad english IT people.

[TinTin]

All that glitters ...

There are indeed plenty of jobs on paper (or Jobswerve etc to be precise), however if one scratches the surface it isn't quite like that. The market is flooded with Indians, mostly code monkeys that have been sent here to help with outsourcing and managed to stay by turning into contracting and undercutting rates by as much as 100% . Agents have cottoned on to this and and put them forward at our expense knowing what huge profit margins can be made. 80% of them can't speak proper English, let alone write a decent piece of code, but who cares?