Reply to: David Starkey

[minestrone]

I recall when Radio 1 had it's shake down about 15 years ago and kicked out DLT and the like it swung totally towards the london urban music scene which really not that many people listen to, now we have droves of white kids thinking they are in the bloods.

[xoggoth]

Dunno. Not my area/generation, but people do get influenced by all sorts of stuff. I think we all went round going "wow man, far out" and in some ways the 60s/early 70s ethos was pretty damaging too, a lot of promising people tuned in and dropped out. Knew a few.

Most had both parents and it was a fairly middle class thing, so feckless parents or fatherless families as I said above are not totally a reason for current problems. One thinks "this is the main cause" or "that is the main cause" and then find it doesn't really fit. The only real cause is probably that most people are impressionable idiots.

[Mich the Tester]

Indeed or, to put it another way, it is a statistic. Trying to find solutions for these self inflicted problems is a nightmare but any policies should be based on statistics and realities rather than individual observations or what we think we should think.

Yep, but how do you explain this wierd phenomenon of kids from London trying to speak Jamaican patois? OK, I've been away from England for a long time, so maybe I notice it more, but it strikes me that many white Londoners nowadays sound more like a crap Bob Marley impersonation than Chas and Dave.

[xoggoth]

Hmmm, 'blacks make up etc' is a generalisation

Indeed or, to put it another way, it is a statistic. Trying to find solutions for these self inflicted problems is a nightmare but any policies should be based on statistics and realities rather than individual observations or what we think we should think.

[Mich the Tester]

Very over simplistic to blame it all in that (especially the looting which was largely about people seizing their opportunities) although it is a factor. Blacks make up a disproportionate percentage of violent gangs throughout many countries in the West and South America, not racism but fact. Check it out on reputable sites. What other popular culture has songs glorifying violence? I think lack of father figures is a big factor as this black guy said in Philadephia.

Fifty teens arrested in Philadelphia curfew to fight 'social network mobs' - Telegraph

Gang culture influences kids so they don't bother to try. Why work in a boring low paid job if there are more glamorous well paid possibilities? They also damage peceptions of blacks so people are wary of the ones who do try and they are less likely to get proper jobs. It's a negative spiral. Cracking down on gangs will be doing most blacks a favour and I suspect most will be darn glad of it if it's done properly.

Hmmm, 'blacks make up etc' is a generalisation; what I've noticed is specifically white kids in London taking over an accent that can only be described as a drunk from the north-east doing a poor imitation of a Yardie from some grotty neighbourhood in Kingston; I think Starkey was trying to refer to this and if so he had a valid point; stupid of him to say that 'whites have become black' as if white people were paragons of moral behaviour before they met a black man.

[xoggoth]

Very over simplistic to blame it all in that (especially the looting which was largely about people seizing their opportunities) although it is a factor. Blacks make up a disproportionate percentage of violent gangs throughout many countries in the West and South America, not racism but fact. Check it out on reputable sites. What other popular culture has songs glorifying violence? I think lack of father figures is a big factor as this black guy said in Philadephia.

Fifty teens arrested in Philadelphia curfew to fight 'social network mobs' - Telegraph

Gang culture influences kids so they don't bother to try. Why work in a boring low paid job if there are more glamorous well paid possibilities? They also damage peceptions of blacks so people are wary of the ones who do try and they are less likely to get proper jobs. It's a negative spiral. Cracking down on gangs will be doing most blacks a favour and I suspect most will be darn glad of it if it's done properly.

[lilelvis2000]

Do you mean African or Afro-Carribean? Most West African mini-cab drivers I chat to (and it's been a while) seem to see a big gap between Londoners of West African descent and those of Carribean descent.

True, while the West African have the same problem on absent fathers - I haven't seen their youth (in my experience) involved in crime. My only experience with Afro-Carribean is with Jamaican youth in Canada where there is a huge problem with crime. So much so that the govt. has been deporting the convicts back to Jamaica for a couple of decades now - the one's who are not citizens of course.

[Dearnla]

I get the impression he wanted to say something intelligent but said it in such a clumsy way it came out as something completely stupid.

Cupid stunt.

"The problem was he was making wild generalisations which you just can't do these days. A lot of old poofs do that though"

V.good, subtle, but good.

[Old Greg]

This is my experience with the African community that I have met.

As for Starkey, I think he got it wrong and he said it wrong. Its not about black culture. Its about demolition of the family structure, a "leave to the state" to discipline the kids attitude, gangs and peer pressure to have bling, and a car with a propellor on the bonnet. Well that's my humble opinion anyway. I could be wrong.

Could I also chuck in the feeling that we're governed by a bunch of Eton elite posh boys who simply are looking for a golden parachute when they're done?

Perhaps after the royal commission something will come out.

Do you mean African or Afro-Carribean? Most West African mini-cab drivers I chat to (and it's been a while) seem to see a big gap between Londoners of West African descent and those of Carribean descent.

[lilelvis2000]

Khristian Marcus, who described himself as a “black Londoner” in a “normal job”, said Afro-Caribbean children suffered a lack of discipline due to large numbers of absent fathers and mothers left unable to cope.

He wrote: “What I have seen over the last couple of days and known for a while is we as the black 'community’ have major fault lines running through our family structure, and we are now and have been for the longest time, seeing the manifestation of this.”

This is my experience with the African community that I have met.

As for Starkey, I think he got it wrong and he said it wrong. Its not about black culture. Its about demolition of the family structure, a "leave to the state" to discipline the kids attitude, gangs and peer pressure to have bling, and a car with a propellor on the bonnet. Well that's my humble opinion anyway. I could be wrong.

Could I also chuck in the feeling that we're governed by a bunch of Eton elite posh boys who simply are looking for a golden parachute when they're done?

Perhaps after the royal commission something will come out.

[MarillionFan]

Piers Morgan called him a "racist idiot".

Doubt he's actually racist but one can imagine him as being the one who got thrown in the nettle patch outside the school gates.

Did you hear what he said? He pronounces the h in nihilistic ffs!

The problem was he was making wild generalisations which you just can't do these days. A lot of old poofs do that though.

[Mich the Tester]

I get the impression he wanted to say something intelligent but said it in such a clumsy way it came out as something completely stupid.

[pacharan]

Piers Morgan called him a "racist idiot".

Doubt he's actually racist but one can imagine him as being the one who got thrown in the nettle patch outside the school gates.

Did you hear what he said? He pronounces the h in nihilistic ffs!

[MarillionFan]

I thought he was attempting to make a valid point and got shouted down by a couple of PC idiots.

As much of some of what he said was valid he got the delivery wrong.

Was he correct to say that 'White youngsters are attempting to be black' Yes he was. But what exactly does that mean?? Bling, rep culture? Dianne Abbot had been on a couple of days earlier blaming bling culture that many black youths followed, but does that make it a 'black' culture???

Innit.

[Troll]

Rivers of Blood.....