What do you think of

[AtW]

Human Rights lawyers have strong evidence that a substantial number of detainees are simply those who were unlucky enough to be "denounced" by their neighbours in return for the reward money and have no connection to Al-Quaida or any other terrorist organisation.

Most certainly - murky times like this are ideal for settling accounts and making some money.

Simple matter of fact is that despite having so many people tortured there for years no results were achieved whatsoever - Osama is still a large and amazingly US troops were cut in Afganistan.

The kind of damage XRay did to American ideals in particular and democracy in general is just WAY too high. And lets not forget here - Americans won their freedom by not exactly engaging the British in open fight with uniforms clearly marked. People have implicit right to defend their country by any means necessary and if the occupier does not like it then it should not be occupying the country in the first place.

[DaveB]

A lot of prisoners in XRay were (allegedly) captured after direct fights like one in Tora Bora.

Add to this that a lot of them were "captured" after the US posted substantial rewards for anyone handing over members of Al-Aquaida(sp?) and didnt bother checking too closely just who is was they were dragging of to Cuba.

Human Rights lawyers have strong evidence that a substantial number of detainees are simply those who were unlucky enough to be "denounced" by their neighbours in return for the reward money and have no connection to Al-Quaida or any other terrorist organisation.

[snaw]

Bugger it, let's do away with any sort of criminal justice system, presumtion of innocence and human rights and head straight into a police state ... wait a minute isn't that how the enemy wants things?

If they're guilty they'd get found guilty in a court of law - the punishment part is debatable (Death/life whatever) and if state secrets are the issue then I'm sure there is a way round it.

Guildford four anyone ...

[expat]

Why were you quoting from the Quran to support your viewpoint?

Satire, satire. Sigh.

[AtW]

In other wars, such people would have been shot immediately.

They were plenty of things done in other wars that are no longer considered acceptable.

The Geneva convention states the following:

"2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. "

A lot of prisoners in XRay were (allegedly) captured after direct fights like one in Tora Bora, hence clearly (a), (c) and (d) applied to then. The question is whether (b) applied - but I'd say when you have US marines on one side and anyone else on the other, then for the purposes of opening fire "fixed distinctive sign recognizable" is that NOT being one of the US ones.

Hence, it seems to me that Geneva convention fully applies to a number of XRay PoWs, who by the way should be send home since that war has been officially over for a very long time.

The issue however is not whether those guys are PoWs under Geneva convention or not - regardless of their legal status it seems to me that torture techniques and indefinite detention should not be used, especially since it clearly does not produce any positive results.

[PerlOfWisdom]

So, you think because Taliban does not have resources to order nice uniforms with insignia, it means that those who fight among their midsts are spies?

I didn't say that, but that's the rules for the Geneva convention to apply. In other wars, such people would have been shot immediately.

I'm sure some kind of uniform would be much cheaper than their guns, but then they wouldn't be able to hide in civilian areas.

[AtW]

The Geneva convention doesn't apply to fighters not in uniform - they're classed as spies or terrorists.

So, you think because Taliban does not have resources to order nice uniforms with insignia, it means that those who fight among their midsts are spies?

[Dundeegeorge]

Geez get a life

And let's not have trials or Geneva conventions or Red Cross visits or any of that crap!!! Kill anybody I don't like!!! Death to everybody!!!!

Geez, get a life.

Why were you quoting from the Quran to support your viewpoint?

[PerlOfWisdom]

And let's not have trials or Geneva conventions or Red Cross visits or any of that crap!!! Kill anybody I don't like!!! Death to everybody!!!!

Geez, get a life.

The Geneva convention doesn't apply to fighters not in uniform - they're classed as spies or terrorists.

[expat]

Would be fine by me so long as interrogation techniques used at XRay (ie simulated drowning) are applied to senior Govt officials on a routine basis - note that for this there should be no need for obvious proof of their corruption, mere presense in the Govt should warrant such treatment for at least a few years after which they can be released without charge. I am sure xoggoth would second that.

I'll second that!

[AtW]

Would be fine by me so long as interrogation techniques used at XRay (ie simulated drowning) are applied to senior Govt officials on a routine basis - note that for this there should be no need for obvious proof of their corruption, mere presense in the Govt should warrant such treatment for at least a few years after which they can be released without charge. I am sure xoggoth would second that.

[expat]

Or should they have been strung up long ago?

And let's not have trials or Geneva conventions or Red Cross visits or any of that crap!!! Kill anybody I don't like!!! Death to everybody!!!!

Geez, get a life.

[Mordac]

If they are not British citizens they should be asking their own government for consular help, surely?

[Dundeegeorge]

FROM BBC NEWS

Three UK residents held at Guantanamo Bay have been "severely tortured and suffered inhuman and degrading treatment", their lawyer said.
The men have asked the High Court to force Foreign Secretary Jack Straw to press for their release.

Lawyer Timothy Otty told the court there was "compelling evidence" of abuse - a claim denied by the US.

The government says it cannot represent Bisher al-Rawi, Jamil el-Banna and Omar Deghayes as they are not UK citizens.

But it says it has conveyed concerns about the men to the US on a purely humanitarian basis.

The men are among at least five UK residents still thought to be held at the US-run camp in Cuba.


Are they poor hard-done-by wee lambs who the british government (yes the government whose troops they were fighting against) should be breaking their back to help?
Or should they have been strung up long ago?