Reply to: Wind Turbines to smother Wales

[shaunbhoy]

We are drifting away from the point here. The whole concept of smothering Wales was reputedly on offer. For me, regardless of the possible environmental damage, that must be a price worth paying...............think of the children!

[d000hg]

Whatever fuel or energy sources you use, usage is rising exponentially. That's your real problem.

Well that depends how many orders of magnitude more sun-power are available. Considering the sun provides all the energy for tornadoes and such things, there is quite a bit of breathing room.

Moving the earth a bit closer to the sun would also free up loads of energy IIRC.

[Doggy Styles]

Whatever fuel or energy sources you use, usage is rising exponentially. That's your real problem.

[Sysman]

Yes, apart from you need to be planning ahead how much fuel you need by millennia and we weren't around to make those plans for the usage right now. Plus we're cutting most of them down. Plus they pollute rather badly.

Large chunks of the world get by on charcoal.

(OK, they tend to be warm and only need it for cooking)

[d000hg]

Best way so far has been to use plants, trees are best.
Wait for them to grow, then bury them for a substantial period of time, this substantially changes the material making it easier to transport and giving more energy per kilo when burnt.

Yes, apart from you need to be planning ahead how much fuel you need by millennia and we weren't around to make those plans for the usage right now. Plus we're cutting most of them down. Plus they pollute rather badly.

Biology does seem like a good route though. Modify a tree to produce petrol instead of sugar, and so on. Apart from they need water and the hottest places are a bit dry. Pure physics works well in the dry desert by contrast.

[Spacecadet]

From a common-sense perspective, solar seems the best long-term renewable energy source to me, globally speaking. Before jumping in about pollutants and efficiency and so on, note the key phrase "long-term". The energy is there to be taken, we just need a better way to harvest and distribute it.

Best way so far has been to use plants, trees are best.
Wait for them to grow, then bury them for a substantial period of time, this substantially changes the material making it easier to transport and giving more energy per kilo when burnt.

[DimPrawn]

By the same logic:

Given that the prevailing winds go in the same direction as the rotation of the earth, won't too many windmills speed up the earth?

Which will make the day shorter and so we will all live longer.

[Sysman]

Wind turbines slow the wind down, too many of them and the wind will stop. I read that in K-PAX...

By the same logic:

Given that the prevailing winds go in the same direction as the rotation of the earth, won't too many windmills speed up the earth?

[d000hg]

From a common-sense perspective, solar seems the best long-term renewable energy source to me, globally speaking. Before jumping in about pollutants and efficiency and so on, note the key phrase "long-term". The energy is there to be taken, we just need a better way to harvest and distribute it.

[d000hg]

Maybe it's national_usage/number_of_people which includes business use, traffic lights, etc, not just homes themselves?

[gingerjedi]

He said: "The average energy used per person in the UK is 125 kilowatt hours per day. To achieve even 20 kilowatt hours per day per person it will require enough wind turbines to cover an area the size of Wales.

By my calculations that’s 2-3 kettles on constant boil for 24 hours a day? Shirley not??

Or are they factoring 'average energy used' by taking car, air, and food miles into account which makes no difference in calculating how much electricity we require.

[stek]

Wind turbines slow the wind down, too many of them and the wind will stop. I read that in K-PAX...

[TimberWolf]

Blimey, a Telegraph article from 2008! You're really doing your homework.

The hook for the article was the publication of David Mackay's book 'Sustainable energy without the hot air'. Available as a free download if you're interested, Not bad, though I percieve he has a pro-nuclear, anti-renewables bias.

The Telegraph want (well, wanted a few years ago) you to take away this message:



Which of course is a selective quote, as most wind turbines are going offshore, and in the coming decades wind will be just part of the mix... to quote the book directly ...



Here is some more recent news

Great on-line book. He fixates on carbon though.

If solar deserts were practical propositions one might wonder why Australia hasn't gone in that direction yet, which appears more doable there than the Middle East. It might have been him that said solar is waiting for a cost revolution.

[pjclarke]

Old, old news

Blimey, a Telegraph article from 2008! You're really doing your homework.

The hook for the article was the publication of David Mackay's book 'Sustainable energy without the hot air'. Available as a free download if you're interested, Not bad, though I percieve he has a pro-nuclear, anti-renewables bias.

The Telegraph want (well, wanted a few years ago) you to take away this message:

He said: "The average energy used per person in the UK is 125 kilowatt hours per day. To achieve even 20 kilowatt hours per day per person it will require enough wind turbines to cover an area the size of Wales.

Which of course is a selective quote, as most wind turbines are going offshore, and in the coming decades wind will be just part of the mix... to quote the book directly ...

...we get all the green electricity from a mix of four sources: from our own renewables; perhaps from “clean coal;” perhaps from nuclear; and finally, and with great politeness, from other countries’ renewables. Among other countries’ renewables, solar power in deserts is the most plentiful option. As long as we can build peaceful international collaborations, solar power in other people’s deserts certainly has the technical potential to provide us, them, and everyone with 125 kWh per day per person ...

Here is some more recent news

[scooterscot]

It's a brave man that puts career and reputation on the line with such media scoundrels