Reply to: Sometimes I wonder how people get jobs in IT

[d000hg]

There are a lot of hard working Indians who come over here to get work. My dad settled in the UK and studied in a British University. I'm one of the first generation British Indian in our family. I also have cousins in India who are intelligent and capable. It is a shame that a few have spoiled it for the many the many have spoiled it for the few.

FTFY. It's because every Indian with an IT qualification is being hired that the problem is there.

[Freamon]

From my experience most think the will advance their career with soft skills, not with doing any work. From some of the other post, they use their skills to keep well in with management. If things go wrong it’s easy to blame you!

Of the ones I've seen who have made it to management, sadly this is true.

I worked with a US organisation last year whose entire technical management team was pretty much composed of people who were previously senior managers in their indian outsourcing supplier and that they had transferred in. The politics was an absolute nightmare, worst I've ever seen!

[alreadypacked]

We have similar issues at clientoco, but we work around it and we have modified our behavior to ask questions in the right way to get to the truth - not brilliant, but we have to work together.
A couple of the guys are basically getting trained on site by the senior members of the team and I think they realise that and see its to their advantage.
One guy is bobbins and I don't expect he'll be renewed, he could learn a lot and do well if he paid attention, but he just keeps making very silly mistakes - shame. He'll get work again though cos the demand in my area is huge at the mo.

My main issue with the chaps from India, is that they have real problems taking any sort of directions or instructions from a woman
As one of the senior technical members of the team, this is annoying, however they will learn.....

From my experience most think the will advance their career with soft skills, not with doing any work. From some of the other post, they use their skills to keep well in with management. If things go wrong it’s easy to blame you!

[Pogle]

We have similar issues at clientoco, but we work around it and we have modified our behavior to ask questions in the right way to get to the truth - not brilliant, but we have to work together.
A couple of the guys are basically getting trained on site by the senior members of the team and I think they realise that and see its to their advantage.
One guy is bobbins and I don't expect he'll be renewed, he could learn a lot and do well if he paid attention, but he just keeps making very silly mistakes - shame. He'll get work again though cos the demand in my area is huge at the mo.

My main issue with the chaps from India, is that they have real problems taking any sort of directions or instructions from a woman
As one of the senior technical members of the team, this is annoying, however they will learn.....

[TiroFijo]

Yeah, general opinion about UK workers that i've heard from Indians is that we are lazy, think the world owes us a living and dont/cant do a full days work (always followed by an "except you of course").

They say that about American workers also.

[TiroFijo]

If you live in India, and you fail, you and your family starve.

Most of them are starving...

[Freamon]

It's sad really - at one time we used to get really good IT people from India. Since we've had this "outsource at full speed" method take hold in the UK, we now obviously start scraping the barrel (as well as putting our own people out of work or denying them opportunities to advance). The decent Indian IT folk are probably more cheesed off with it than we are, as it reflects badly on their reputation and probably undercuts their wages too.

Working with a specialist Indian outfit at the moment who seem to have very high quality people. They have deep skills in a particular niche product. We've asked them to provide a few more people onto the project, but they're struggling as they are maxed out across their own clients and cannot find people back home of a high enough standard to employ.

[suityou01]

I am working with a contractor from India (who is on one of those Work Visa's) who is suppose to have more knowledge of the product we are supporting than I do. Every time this contractor talks, I question (in my head) whether the contractor has any knowledge of the product, or even any IT knowledge at all. How in the hell do people like this contractor get IT jobs?

I was partly on the fence (leaning on the side of not liking foreign workers taking UK IT Jobs) before, but now that I have experience the numptyness of this contractor, I am now of the opinion that any company that outsources their IT infrastructure to India should be shot in public.

Couple of quick questions.

1) Did you ever blag your way into a gig, ever, even if not just ever so slightly?
2) If you are a first gen proper British Indian, what were your folks when they arrived? Would they like you talking like this?

If the answer to these is

1) No never.
2) Fook off suity, seriously.

Then please carry on. Otherwise, count your blessings, be nice to your fellow man and you may even learn a thing or two.

HTH

[Fishface]

I have Indian dudes to support for hardware and network things.

In the past they were in Czech or former eastern germany - worse language problems - probably very culturally different - yet this dishonesty/face saving/bulltuliping did not exist - it really wastes *alot* of time - you have to instruct them from zero until you can find what level their skill really is - boring - assume nothing. A Czecher would say 'I don't know' - I wish these guys would do the same.

One or two are quick, capable and confident.

And one is a born bureaucrat, huffs and puffs, takes days to do the simplest of tasks yet all the other suck up to him - I have no idea why he is a PITA.

[pmeswani]

The thing is the country now needs them as we no longer train IT staff. In a way that is good for current contractors as 'most' places I have found do still hire an amount of UK it contractors before going oversees and I think there are hardly any decent contractors on the market just now.

If that makes sense.

It's getting to the point where schools are no longer going to teach IT in its current form. Don't know what reforms are going to take place, but that is where interests should invested in.

[minestrone]

The thing is the country now needs them as we no longer train IT staff. In a way that is good for current contractors as 'most' places I have found do still hire an amount of UK it contractors before going oversees and I think there are hardly any decent contractors on the market just now.

If that makes sense.

[EternalOptimist]

I had a conversation with an Indian colleague who was quite horrified that I was allowing my daughter to study fashion. Sure, I'd much prefer her to be doing something a bit more useful, but I'm not going to squash her dreams. If she was growing up in India, she'd probably be doing IT / MBA or something similar.

Cant she combine the two, and design a new summer range of Burhka for per Una or something ?
no , wait..thats not India.

still,... bloody foreigners, eh ?

[mudskipper]

I think it's a fundamental difference in our societies.

If you live in India, and you fail, you and your family starve.

If you live in Britain, the state will look after you to a greater or lesser degree.

I think the pressure is on educated Indians to get jobs in IT, because that's where the money is. Most of us probably chose to go into (or fell into) IT because we had some sort of interest / aptitude. There are undoubtedly many very capable Indians - I work with several - but there are also many who are in IT because of parental expectations.

I had a conversation with an Indian colleague who was quite horrified that I was allowing my daughter to study fashion. Sure, I'd much prefer her to be doing something a bit more useful, but I'm not going to squash her dreams. If she was growing up in India, she'd probably be doing IT / MBA or something similar.

[Sysman]

Next time you have a meeting with him and someone from management, suggest he puts some training material together for you and the team so you can make the most of his experience and get some extra value from his time with you.

I like that suggestion. If he really is any good you'll learn something. If not, he'll hang himself.

[Durbs]

Have you never seen Slumdog Millionaire?

That dance routine at the end in the railway station to Jai Ho is cool. I'd employ them solely on the basis of that.