Reply to: Social Engineering through Capitalism

[monkeyboy]

And where would the money go


A considerable ammount to the local drug dealer

[John Galt]

As socialism goes, this is less damaging than most measures. Kids on the whole are not supposed to be working for a living, so state-sponsored pocket money doesn't create any perverse incentives. In some cases it will simply replace what parents would have given, so no net cost other than the inefficiency of routing the money via the government.

Adults have some control over their economic station, so socialism is more damaging when applied to them. Kids don't get to choose who they are born to, and don't have many choices to improve their lot in the short term, so socialism applied to them (whether state pocket money, state-sponsored education or state-sponsored health care) is more justifiable than for adults.

This does create perverse incentives. The Government is sending out the message to children that they should expect something for nothing. What will happen when they go out to work? Here I am Mr Boss man, on time so where's me 25 quid? The sort of kids they are trying to bribe won't be interested because 25 quid doesn't mean a lot when you can make 50 mugging your local pensioner so we, the tax payer, will end up funding a bunch of kids that weren't doing anything wrong in the first place. Gordon Blair really does have more teeth than brain cells

[Fungus]

Can't we just stab all the bad people?

Isn't that what the bad people are doing anyway? I suppose we coud help them by handing out knife sharpeners. Or is that too altruistic.

And poor people too come to think of it?

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche. Or something like that.

Fungus, le meilleur champignon au bois.

[OwlHoot]

exactly what I was thinking, NL are canvasing already

Exactly, and didn't some right-thinking parliamentary committee, no doubt stuffed with labourites, recently recommend reducing the voting age to 16?

This bribe for good behaviour reminds me of that Rudyard Kipling poem Danegeld

IT IS always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
To call upon a neighbour and to say:—
“We invaded you last night—we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away.”

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you’ve only to pay ’em the Dane-geld
And then you’ll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:—
“Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.”

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we’ve proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:—

“We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!”

[xoggoth]

Agree totally with jabber. What is really needed and what would work is to bring kids up in the first place with a proper sense of social responsibility and measures like this only diminish that. It is not "wrong" to mug old ladies and steal their purses, it just might not pay commercially to get caught. And if your wages do not turn up for a month?, well, then you are entitled to go out and roll an old biddy aren't you?

It has to start with instilling a proper sense of duty into the bloody awful parents which has been destroyed by the welfare society and by re-establishing the link in law between behaviour towards society and the treatment you can expect from it. No you don't have a "right" to income support or anything else, you earn it.

Bring in workfare and make sentencing increasingly heavy with every subsequent offence unless a genuine willingness to improve is demonstrated, not just claimed.

[Dundeegeorge]

Sheesh keep up DP

Can't we just stab all the bad people? And poor people too come to think of it?

If you stab all the bad people you're by definition stabbing all the poor also.
(sighs resignedly) huh, some people.

[DimPrawn]

Can't we just stab all the bad people? And poor people too come to think of it?

[IR35 Avoider]

25 quid for staying off the streets

As socialism goes, this is less damaging than most measures. Kids on the whole are not supposed to be working for a living, so state-sponsored pocket money doesn't create any perverse incentives. In some cases it will simply replace what parents would have given, so no net cost other than the inefficiency of routing the money via the government.

Adults have some control over their economic station, so socialism is more damaging when applied to them. Kids don't get to choose who they are born to, and don't have many choices to improve their lot in the short term, so socialism applied to them (whether state pocket money, state-sponsored education or state-sponsored health care) is more justifiable than for adults.

[IR35 Avoider]

Why don't they give all kids when they reach 16 like £1 million to do whatever they like with. Give 'em a good start in life.

Well, except for the amounts involved, this is what one of Gordon's pet projects, the child trust fund, has been set up to do.

I've also heard it argued (can't remember by who) that all inheritance tax should be ear-marked to give everyone an equal amount of money at that age. i.e. instead of rich leaving money to their children, confiscate the lot (or a lot of it) and spread it amongst all children evenly.

[MrsGoof]

Another reason for hoi polloi to re-elect Labour in case another party does away with it.

exactly what I was thinking, NL are canvasing already

[wendigo100]

Another reason for hoi polloi to re-elect Labour in case another party does away with it.

[John Galt]

This is the stupidist in a long line of incredibly stupid ideas from really stupid people!!! If you work hard, start a business, employee people and create wealth for the country you are taxed to oblivion and, as a further deterent to future entrepreneurialism (??) we are teaching kids that you can get something for nothing. And where the hell does the Government get off using our hard earned cash to give to some little barsteward who has been kind enough not to beat the crap out of a little old lady this week.

[hyperD]

Indeed, there is a principle known as "carrot & stick". It's just that somewhere along the way these feckless buffoons lost the stick part.

Probably some invertebrate decided it wasn't fair.

[Dundeegeorge]

Now then, ws reading somewhere

Why don't they give all kids when they reach 16 like £1 million to do whatever they like with. Give 'em a good start in life.

might even have been on here, that all this income support/jobseekers allowance/benefits stuff should be stopped forthwith, give every family in the land a cash sum dependent on the number of children, and the families would have to survive on whatever they get. Of course if you want more money you go to work for someone and whatever you earn is taxed at 20%. Period.
Does the panel think? Wrong question, what does the panel want to drivel on about and could this idea be included in their rambling?.

[threaded]

Why don't they give all kids when they reach 16 like £1 million to do whatever they like with. Give 'em a good start in life.