Reply to: oh great - another war

[EternalOptimist]

Alf, that was under Gadaffi. He wasnt exactly stopping it was he ?

[AlfredJPruffock]

More on the Libyan Rebels ...



Well known to the United States policymakers in Obama White House and Clinton State Department along with the National Security Council but not widely known to American mainstream media, the U.S. West Point Military Academy’s Combating Terrorism Center document reveals that Libya sent more fighters to Iraq’s Islamic militancy on a per-capita basis than any other Muslim country, including Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps more alarmingly for Western policymakers, most of the fighters came from eastern Libya, the center of the current uprising against Muammar el-Qaddafi.

The analysis of the Combating Terrorism Center of West Point was based on the records captured by coalition forces in October 2007 in a raid near Sinjar, along Iraq’s Syrian border.

The eastern Libyan city of Darnah sent more fighters to Iraq than any other single city or town, according to the West Point report. It noted that 52 militants came to Iraq from Darnah, a city of just 80,000 people (the second-largest source of fighters was Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which has a population of more than 4 million).

Benghazi, the capital of Libya’s provisional government declared by the anti-Qaddafi rebels, sent in 21 fighters, again a disproportionate number of the whole.

If the 2007 captured records revealed the Eastern Libyan participation in the anti-coalition forces militancy in Iraq one could imagine the Banghazi-Darnah export of Islamists since then.

“Libyans were more fired up to travel to Iraq to kill Americans than anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world,” Andrew Exum, a counterinsurgency specialist and former Army Ranger noted in a blog posting recently. “This might explain why those rebels from Libya's eastern provinces are not too excited about U.S. military intervention. It might also give some pause to those in the United States so eager to arm Libya's rebels.”

Despite this data and information available to the United Stated government Secretary of State Hilary Clinton met late Monday 14 with a leader of the Libyan rebel movement in Paris privately and without a public statement. Mrs. Clinton met the opposition rebel leader Mahmoud Jibril at her hotel in Paris after attending a dinner with foreign ministers of the countries of the Group 8 who discussed ways to increase pressure on Colonel Qaddafi’s Libyan regime.

The West Point report said “Both Darnah and Benghazi have long been associated with Islamic militancy in Libya.

[Freamon]

These potty dictators never learn - As soon as Saddam Hussein announced in 2002 that Iraq would start selling its oil in Euros instead of Dollars, his fate was sealed (even if it did take a couple of years).

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Oil Pricing Unit Red Herring

[AlfredJPruffock]

Good article in the DT:

Defeat the Libyan regime. And then? - Telegraph

TV reporting has a lot to answer for. It creates an impression of downtrodden young people just wanting freedom and democracy and people rightly sympathise with those but it often does not begin to describe the reality of opposition in the area - Islamist groups, tribal leaders as bad as the dictators they are replacing, Shiahs wanting their turn at repressing Sunnis. To get involved in this is in any way is purely insane.

Spot on Xoggoth - the fact is that these Libyan Rebels are a mix of Al Queda fanatics funded by the House of Saud - Freedom and Democracy ???- dont make me laugh!

[xoggoth]

As soon as Saddam Hussein announced in 2002 that Iraq would start selling its oil in Euros instead of Dollars

They should sell it in Zimbabwean dollars (or pounds or whatever it is) oil prices would plummet.

[ratewhore]

"Take the bugger out from the air and let the Libyan people sort out the mess" seems like a far safer plan than getting embroiled in another exitless guerrilla war.

Interesting theory. Have a look how long the no-fly zones over the Balkans and Iraq were operational for...

[EternalOptimist]

Yes - I would recommend Sharm-el-Sheik or Hammamet

and take care if you book Tripoli. make sure you get the right one

[Dearnla]

Is it safe to go on a mediterranean holiday while it's all kicking off?

Yes - I would recommend Sharm-el-Sheik or Hammamet

[EternalOptimist]

Xog, that Torygraph article basically sums up my views - interestingly not a Grauniadista lefty pinko rag.

For a more balanced view there is this:

The Daily Mash - Fingers crossed Libyan rebels aren't insane

Whichever way you look at it, the govt never thinks these things through. Make no mistake, this is going to hang around and haunt us for years, especially now the arabs have changed their mind (as soon as we went in).

Now who would have predicted that? I know Shaunbhoy wouldn't but to be honest he struggles with most things.

there was a very large number of countries who wanted to get materially involved right from the off. It might be a bit dumb long term, but it seemed to me there were lots of people who saw a relatively risk-free way to stick one in Gadaffis eye

i.e. it was more anti-tyrant than anything else

[shaunbhoy]

Whichever way you look at it, the govt never thinks these things through.

Of course they don't. If only they had a crystal ball like yours eh?



Tip for the day, get yourself a helmet. That way when you come off your bike and land on your head again, you might not do so much damage.

HTH

[Shimano105]

Xog, that Torygraph article basically sums up my views - interestingly not a Grauniadista lefty pinko rag.

For a more balanced view there is this:

The Daily Mash - Fingers crossed Libyan rebels aren't insane

Whichever way you look at it, the govt never thinks these things through. Make no mistake, this is going to hang around and haunt us for years, especially now the arabs have changed their mind (as soon as we went in).

Now who would have predicted that? I know Shaunbhoy wouldn't but to be honest he struggles with most things.

[Incognito]

It is basically a war:

A Libyan no-fly zone is no different to invading Iraq – Telegraph Blogs

FT Alphaville » Not just a no-fly zone [updated]

It is basically not a war.

Definition of ‘armed conflict’
44. Technically the United Kingdom has not formally declared ‘war’ on any state since 1942. The Law of Armed Conflict (also often called International Humanitarian Law) which regulates the conduct of armed conflict, applies to any armed conflict between states, however the participants choose to describe it. So a formal declaration of war is not a condition precedent for the application of international humanitarian law. The Government does not propose that any of the canvassed options should be predicated in any way on a formal declaration of war.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/cp2607a.pdf

[OwlHoot]

The only reason the West is doing anything is that Gaddafi announced a plan to nationalize all oil production in Libya, and shut out western companies.

These potty dictators never learn - As soon as Saddam Hussein announced in 2002 that Iraq would start selling its oil in Euros instead of Dollars, his fate was sealed (even if it did take a couple of years).

[xoggoth]

Good article in the DT:

Defeat the Libyan regime. And then? - Telegraph

TV reporting has a lot to answer for. It creates an impression of downtrodden young people just wanting freedom and democracy and people rightly sympathise with those but it often does not begin to describe the reality of opposition in the area - Islamist groups, tribal leaders as bad as the dictators they are replacing, Shiahs wanting their turn at repressing Sunnis. To get involved in this is in any way is purely insane.

[shaunbhoy]

"Take the bugger out from the air and let the Libyan people sort out the mess" seems like a far safer plan than getting embroiled in another exitless guerrilla war.

In a nutshell. Not that the pragmatism of such an approach will do anything to assuage the panic-stricken hysteria that is currently afflicting some of the forum Guardianista birdbrains!!